1050 arrived today and have a problem . . .

I disconnected my old Sony Receiver, which I only hooked up over the weekend to connect my new Boston Acoustic 9000 II speakers and get everything else connected to make certain everything was working, which it was.

I have every single wire marked and was extremely careful as to how I hooked everything up. My speakers are wired thusly:

LF + Sub LF to 1050 LF
RF + Sub RF to 1050 RF
LFE Sub to 1050 LFE
LR to 1050 LR
RR to 1050 RR
CC to 1050 CC

I configured the fronts to Large, the Center and Rear to Small and the Sub = On. The Sub is configured at 150Hz.

I had spoken via e-mail to both Outlaw and Boston about how to configure and set the speakers up and everyone concurred this is correct. This is even explained in the BA Manual.

The DVD player is plugged into the DVD(Play In) on the 1050. TV is plugged into Video 02(Play In) on the 1050. VCR is plugged into Video 01(Play In), CD player is plugged into CD on the 1050.

Now for the problem:

I am not getting ANY sound out of the DVD player! I ran the speaker test and all 6 speakers can be heard. I can hear the TV through the 1050, the FM Radio is playing without a problem. I have not tried the VCR as it is getting late. I also have not tried plugging the DVD into any other outlets.

My DVD is connected to the TV with component cables. The VCR with a composite cable.

I am seeing the DVD picture on the TV. I know the DVD player is working fine as I watched DVD movies all weekend long playing through my old Sony.

Another thing I noticed, not sure if it is a problem or normal. The Remote from the 1050 hums like crazy once the remote lights up. This really isn't a major issue as I will be using a Pronto, but I have never heard a remote hum like this. It can't be because the remote lights up either, my Sony TV remote lights up and does not hum.

If nobody can give me any ideas I will call Outlaw tomorrow, but wanted to try here first.

Thanks.

Larry

Larry

First, the easy one -- the remote does hum, it's a "trait" (quirk) of the backlighting used on that remote. The Radio Shack 15-1994 remote has a similar (albeit quieter) hum.

From the connection notes you provided, I get the impression that you are using analog inputs only between your sources and the 1050. The speaker connections are obviously fine. If you are using a digital connection for the DVD (which you will want to do to get Dolby Digital and DTS decoding), you need to assign the digital input to the source (DVD, CD, Video 2, etc...) -- page 26 of the manual gives the specifics, but basically you use the "Digital Select" button on the 1050's face or the "DIGITAL" button on the remote to cycle through the digital inputs while the 1050 is set to the input you want to use. It remembers which digital input was selected. You also need to make sure that the player is set up to provide a signal to its digital output; some players by default will not output a DTS signal and you mave to change the data format used. If you are using the stereo analog inputs for the DVD player, make sure that the DVD input isn't using a digital input -- that would supercede the analog input.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Thanks for the reply. Since I am work now I will have to double check then, but for now this is what I tried this morning . . .

I tried the VCR and didn't get any sound. I moved the DVD cable on the 1050 from the DVD input to the Video 03 input and still don't get any sound. I tried the CD player and am getting sound.

With the DVD in either source; DVD or Video 03 I was playing the DVD, seeing it on screen and the TV was configured to have the speakers off. I was cycling through every possible setting on the 1050 I could find with each and every button.

I am using RCA plugs, not the digital audio/Fiber cables. Is that what you meant by digital? I don't think you did.

I am looking at the manual now, it says when using the DVD input on the 1050 to use the Opt2 on the digital selector. I tried Opt1, Opt2 and I think the other choice is Coax? This is from memory. lol

I will give it another shot tonight when I get home.

Is it normal not to get any sort of Warranty card with the unit? I know it has a 2 year warranty, but shouldn't I be filling something in for this?

Larry

Outlaw knows who you are, which takes the place of the warranty card -- I've never filled out a warranty card for Outlaw gear (through a 1050, 750, and 950).

It sounds like you are connecting your equipment with analog cables -- "left" and "right" with RCA plugs . When I refer to digital, I mean using either a coaxial or optical digital audio cable -- a single cable that connects your DVD player or CD player to your receiver. You need that to be able to use the Dolby Digital and DTS decoding modes. The "left/right" input is pure stereo. The 1050's manual mentions OPT2 as an example -- one very handy feature on the 1050 is the ability to assign any of the three digital inputs to any source, or even to multiple sources.

If you are using the analog inputs, you need to be sure to not have any digital input selected -- that will override the analog input and leave you with no sound. That may be the problem that you are experiencing currently. You will want to make sure your connections are good and then toggle through the digital inputs until none of the digital input indicators are lit (I think it goes COAX, OPT1, OPT2, then nothing). That should get you going.

I recommend checking out your DVD player to see what digital output(s) it has. If it has an optical output, you can pick up a good optical cable for not a lot of money (Outlaw's PDO is very well built, and will only cost you $20 plus shipping). Since you have two optical inputs, that will also still leave you with a coax and an optical still open for future use (CD, second DVD, mini-disc, whatever). If you only have a coax input, a coaxial digital cable will cost a bit more -- Outlaw's PSC is $40 for a 0.5-meter cable and $50 for a 1.2-meter cable, BetterCables ' 1-meter Silver Serpent is $80, Rhino Cables has a 1-meter digital coax cable for $30, and CatCables has a couple 1-meter digital coax cables ("BearCat" or "JagWire") for $50. You may also want to consider connecting your CD player with a digital cable if it has a digital output -- it will allow you to use the 1050's DAC instead of the player's DAC, and you may find that you prefer the 1050's DAC to the player's DAC.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Ok, just so we are both on the same page. Everything is connected using RCA connectors. So the DVD player is being plugged into the RCA input on the 1050. My DVD player has a digital output, so I could get the Outlaw PDO cable, not a problem. My VCR is only RCA cables, so I can't get the PDO for that and besides it is not worth it for this VCR anyway.

Before ordering any more cables I will set the Digital Input selector until it is blank, and not Opt1, Opt2 or Coax.

I'm not 100% certain if the CD player has the optical connector or not, I'll look when I get home. Would their even be an advantage to an RCA to Optical cable? I can't imagine so.

Thanks for the help, I will let you know once I check everything when I get home tonight.

Larry

A guy out there on Usenet IIRC ran an experiment. The receiver he had was able to display a set of counters that indicated data errors received via the digital inputs. As a test he used a coat hanger from his source to the receiver while watching the counter. Zero errors.

Hmmmm.

Charlie, are you saying the guy compared a digital cable to a coat hanger plugged into the analog RCA plugs?

He couldn't have plugged the coat hanger into the optical connection... wouldn't work.

Just trying to understand what you said.

Larry

Same page here -- all RCA = all analog. Digital output isn't available for VCR's since they operate in the analog domain exclusively, so don't sweat that.

The reason that some people use the digital output from a CD player is perhaps somewhat less than immediately apparent. While it would seem that a D/A converter (or DAC) is simply a device that makes the 0's and 1's into analog, there are differences in DAC's -- some sound better than others. Many of the CD players available at big chains like Best Buy are pretty basic, which means that the DAC's aren't always that great. Your receiver also has DAC's, and those DAC's may provide a better sound (clearer, with a wider soundstage) than using the DAC's in the CD player and sending that to the receiver. There are other factors to consider, as well -- the analog inputs on the 1050 are converted to digital for processing (bass management, surround modes, etc.) and then converted back to analog by the 1050 for amplification. It gets fairly confusing in a hurry, but the bottom line is: if your CD player has a digital output, the best bet is to try listening to it using both the analog and digital outputs to see which you prefer.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Makes sense. I ordered one PDO cable to try it with my DVD player. If my CD player has the optical port I will try it in that as well. The player is a 6 disk Pioneer and I can't find any info on it online, so I will just pull it out and have a look later.

Now, if my CD player does not have the digi out, then I could get an analog to digi cable that goes from RCA to Optical? I can't imagine how that could possibly work considering one is basically a fiber optic cable and the other copper wire. Maybe I am in that confusing mode once again. lol

Let me try this again. I am looking at the Rhino website. They are calling the cable a Digital COAX cable. That to me would indicate an actual wire, not fiber. Would this cable still get plugged into the RCA connectors on both the CD player as well as the 1050? All I recall the 1050 having in terms of connections are:

RCA - Audio
RCA - Composite
S-Video - Video
Optical - Audio

Are their others I forgot about or didn't see?

Larry

Let's see if I can sort this out:

Some devices (all DVD players, some CD players, mini-disc players) provide digital audio outputs in addition to the stereo analog outputs that are the "traditional" output. What this means is that the data being played is remaining in the digital format rather than being converted to analog. These digital outputs can be in a couple of different formats. One is optical (sometimes also called Toslink), which uses a fiber optic cable to transfer the digital signal. For that, you would use the Outlaw PDO. In many cases, the digital signal is not converted to optical but instead uses a "coaxial digital" output -- a single RCA jack and a 75-ohm rated cable that can handle the signal bandwidth. The 1050 has two optical digital inputs and one coaxial digital input -- the coax digital is next to the two optical digital inputs. For DVD players, this digital output is necessary to provide a Dolby Digital or DTS decoder with the original digital soundtrack so you can get the 5.1 surround data.

If you do not use one of these digital connections, then you are relying on the "old" analog approach -- your DVD or CD player reads the disc, takes the digital information, converts it to an analog signal (typically left and right analog channels, although some DVD players to include Dolby Digital decoders, so they output six analog signals), and spits it out through the analog RCA jacks. When connecting the left and right analog outputs of a DVD player to your receiver, you are getting only a piece of the 5.1 soundtrack included on most discs; the rest of the soundtrack is "lost" -- trapped in the player, essentially, by the conversion to analog stereo.

You can convert between coaxial and optical digital signals with inexpensive devices that are available online, but the only way to go from a digital signal to an analog is add a D/A or A/D converter in the signal path -- you are exactly right that no mere "adapter" will do the job.

If your CD player is a magazine-style Pioneer changer, then you probably do not have a digital output -- I used to have one, and it had analog outputs only. I don't think they ever made one with a digital output. I could be wrong, though, so it's worth looking at the back of the player the next time you're messing with the rack. If you only see the two RCA jacks and the little 1/8" remote control in/out jacks, then you don't have a digital output.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Gonk, I appreciate you taking the time to expain this.

I actually thought the answer was how you explained it. But I didn't realize that without the optical cable I would not be able to get the true 5.1 sound track. That was news to me. Glad I ordered the PDO cable and paid for 2nd Day shipping. Will need it as a friend is coming over this weekend and we will be configuring my new Sony in the service menu and adjusting the speakers and everything else. I went on a minor spending spree the last few weeks and got a new TV, speakers and the 1050.

I evne took pics last night as I was installing the 1050 so I would know how it was connected. Now I will have to take more pics when the PDO arrives. lol

Thanks for the help.

Larry

No.

He used a coat-hanger as a digital interconnect for an electrical (coax) digital link. On the rear of your 1050 you will see 2 optical and one electrical input for digital. The electrical one. It has RCA style termination but the signal is digital data.

I was amazed actually, but it says something (good) about the robustness of the link.

What confused me was the fact that a coax connection could be used for digital. I never knew that. lol

My other question regarding the coat hanger "cable". Does this mean it is a better "cable" than the $50+ dollar true digital coax cables? Should I stop at the dry cleaner for some hangers on my way home from work and rewire everything tonight? lol

Larry

Ha.

I think the interesting thing is that all the '1's stayed '1' and the '0's stayed '0', which is all you can expect from a digital interconnect. Any decent processor should buffer and reclock as part of the data verification process so most of the stuff folks attribute to hi-end digital connectors is hogwash.

When you talk about a compressed and packeted data sream like DD or DTS it really gets silly.

On the other hand I enjoy the sight and feel of a well crafted cable as much as the next guy (well, maybe not that much) but don't expect to get better 101100 out of it. Someone called it audio jewelry and I think that's about right. Nothing wrong with it.

That's why I didn't spend a fortune on cables. I got some nice cables, was not about to spend a small fortune on Monster cables, they are not worth the money to me.

One thing I did notice, both sound and quality wise was my speaker cable. I bought Lowe's 14/2 cable and ran short so I went to Home Depot for their 14/2 cable. What a difference! I might rip out the HD cable and get another 75' of Lowe's cable. I can actually hear a difference and the HD cable is on my rear speakers! The copper wire is thinner and more fragile too. The HD 14/2 is about as heavy as the Lowe's 16/2 but it actually is 14/2.

I'd rather spend my pennies where I know it is truly being spent wisely.

Larry

I'm not a 'cable believer' but there are some cases where reasonable care in selection could pay off.

- If your speakers are difficult or runs are long a large gauge wire would be wise.

- If you have EMI problems some low level cables are shielded better than others. Some even lift one end of the drain wire, although in a non-balanced configuration I'm not sure I see the point.

- Some cables are legitimately well built. It's nice to be well built I hear.

Sounds like you've got it under control.

Higher priced cables tend to have better (thicker) gold plating on the contact surfaces, which helps a lot to ward off intermittent connections. Also, good cables are more immune to the copper conductors oxidizing, again contributing to good contact over time. Foil shielding is common also on better cables, which affords 100% shielding.

The advantage of having the shield connected only at one end of the cable is to reduce any current flow through the shield in the case of a ground loop. This is more effective in a balanced wire however.

Aside from that, I don't believe any good cable would 'sound' any better than any other.

I use RG-59 cable throughout my system. I make my own cables, and prefer to use BNC connectors on equipment I make myself. For RCAs, I use ones made by Canare. RG-59 makes an excellent all purpose cable for digital as well as audio, as there is no bandwidth restriction on it at the relavent frequencies. I have an engineer friend who did a lot of lab testing of various cables, and RG-59 came out on top. If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can't do better.

Do you have any pics of your cables?

What do the Canare connectors cost? Any particular brand of RG-59 cable? Beldin, or something else?

Just curious as a friend of mine might be needing some cables soon and wants to fabricate his own.

Thanks.

Larry

The connectors are about $5 each, and Belden would be an excellent source for RG-59. I don't have any pictures of them, but the assembly is really straight forward.

Ok, but what part needs to be soldered? Isn't the connector a slip-on and then crimp over the cable itself to hold in place, or does Canare use a different type of connector?

Any particular type of coax? He was going to create his own speaker cable seeing as how I have 30,000 feet of cat 5 in my garage, but then he found it is the wrong type of cat 5. lol

Do you have a particular model number for the coax cable?

Thanks.

Larry

believe it or not, i think someone made a run of speaker wires with cat5 UTP as an "experiment"...

http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html

hehehehehehe.

as for the coat hanger idea... i'd wonder about the lack of shielding on the digital connection...

best of luck with your setup! i recently acquired my 1050 at home as well and it's been keeping me happy so far.

-e

The cable 'model' is simply RG-59 coax, which is a very common item. The RCA connectors do need to be soldered to the cable. You are probably thinking of an "F" connector which can use the same cable, but crimps on.

Finally got the 1050 up and running on both DVD and the VCR.

Totally my fault. I had to rewire everything last night at 1am and I swapped the DVD and VCR cables! lol They were not even swapped at the 1050, they were swapped on each piece of equipment! lol

I was able to listen to both. Nothing has been configured, I won't be able to get to really setting anything up until Friday night and then this weekend.

Thanks for the help today. I did learn quite a bit as I never realized I needed to dump the RCA cables in order to get the various flavors of Dolby Digital. As I said the Outlaw PDO cable is ordered and should be here Thursday or Friday. I checked my CD player and it only has the RCA plugs(analog) on the back. That's ok, it will need to be replaced soon. But I want to get a phono pre-amp next. I need to get my Linn Sondek LP12 connected. I miss that turntable, it is my pride and joy. Have had it almost 20 years now.

Larry