My Outlaw RR 2150 Receiver

I received the Outlaw RR 2150 last week and have had time to listen and go over all functions. I am not nearly as impressed as I thought I would be due to all the reviews. I have the current version so I don't know how it compares to the original one. First off it is a 100 watt per channel and is not a impressive 100 watts by any means. Another problem I see is the Subwoofer section as it is weak. I'm not sure what the problem is but I spoke with Outlaw and they made suggestions that I use the bass management system which I tried. The problem when using it is you can't control the volume of the subwoofer uless you use bypass. Using 60,80 or 100hz settings all have a set volume within the receiver if you have a powered subwoofer. It bypasses your crossover and volume control within the Sub. AM/FM are about the same as any other receiver I have owned. I have compared the Outlaw with a few other receivers and have found that of the others which are the Onkyo TX-8522, Yamaha RX-797, HK-3380 and NAD C720BEE the NAD won hands down over all including the Outlaw. The only one out of the bunch that didn't have a sub out was the Onkyo but it had pretty much everything else not to mention a great price. The Yamaha & HK both have all the functions I would ever use and the NAD lacks a phono section but at the lowest rated power of all it had more punch, dynamics and was more musical than all of them. The sub output is the best and doesn't need a bass management system at all. I waited over 5 months for the Outlaw RR 2150 and I was very unhappy to hear the results of my wait. I could have went to any local hifi store and picked up any of the 3 other receivers that keep up with the Outlaw or gone to my friends at Sounds Terrific and purchased another NAD C720BEE and been ahead of the game at a lower price. This is only my opinion but it was not worth the wait at all.

Your problems with the bass management section confuse me a bit. From what I could see in the manual, the RR2150 does not have a subwoofer trim setting, so you'd want to use the sub's volume (or trim) control to balance the sub with the mains, but the sub signal should track the mains. The purpose of the crossover settings is to offer a more robust alternative to the crossover on powered subs - or just offering a crossover of any sort for folks with passive subs. The only way I can see to creating the scenario you describe is having an input on the sub that bypasses both, which is not something I've run into before. What sub do you have?

Hello Bugbitten,

No bass management implies that signals below the x-over point used by your subwoofer will be reproduced both by the sub and your speakers. This obviously has an impact on the accuracy of the reproduction of the original source material, which is why we feel it is so important to have a built in x-over applied to the main channels.

In addition as Gonk pointed out an independent subwoofer level control should not be necessary as the sub's level control allows you to calibrate your sub relative to your speakers. From there, the master volume keeps these in-line and matched.

Ultimately, what this comes down to is personal preference, and so far we couldn't be happier with the feedback we have received from the many customers who patiently waited for their unit.

Of course, we have a thirty day in-home trial which allows you to audition the component in the only listening room that actually matters, your own. We appreciate that you gave the RR2150 an audition and are sorry to hear that it did not suit your particular listening needs. That said, we stand by ready to assist you further.

Best,

Scott

The problems with the subwoofer /bass management is this. I have a direct input on my subwoofer and when used it bypasses the subwoofers crossover and volume control. I also have the input to use that operates the volume control and the crossover on the subwoofer. When I use the direct and use your bass management the bass is weak and I cannot adjust the volume. When I use the regular input on the subwoofer I am able to use my speakers full range as well as adjust the crossover and volume control but I'm at almost full volume on the sub before I can get close to the output of the speakers. So what I am saying is the subwoofer output on the Outlaw is set very low. I have tried it with a Gallo TR2, Sunfire, and a Athena AS-P 400 & 4000. Your head designer told me that the Athena was the best out of the bunch and one of the better subwoofers on the market. I'm not trashing the Outlaw I'm simply stating that for the money there are products available that perform as good and in the case of the NAD better than the Outlaw. And as far as the waiting part that my friend is was a mistake on my part. Someone should review the Outlaw vs the NAD and then you would see what I'm talking about as the Outlaw is far from the last word in 2 channel receivers. See Ya Scotty

The problem I see with bass management has more to do with your sub than with any receiver - it's good for a sub to offer a crossover bypass, but bypassing the volume control at the same time is something that I wouldn't care for under any circumstances (two channel or multichannel). You need that adjustability, and that need is independent of bass management. If that is actually the case with your Athena, I'd suggest moving your connection to the other (non-bypass) and then dial the sub's crossover as high as it'll go. Doing so will effectively take the sub's crossover out of the equation, since the entire signal from the RR2150 will land below that crossover. That's the standard approach for dealing with subs that lack a crossover bypass in a home theater setup.

I'm curious about your power comments. Outlaw has a reputation for rating their amps and receivers on the conservative side (as my old Model 1050 and its "little" 65W certainly proved), and the Stereophile review's bench tests indicated that the actual output was higher than the ratings (125W at 8 ohms before clipping and 190W at 4 ohms before clipping - well above the 100W and 160W specs). It even did 310W at 2ohms into one channel. When you found the receiver to sound "weak" how were you comparing it to other units? Were you setting to a comparable SPL level, or just cranking it all the way up to see what the outer limits were?

About the bass management issue: I tried it with four different subwoofers and they all acted the same way whether I used the bypass or 60,80,100hz so it's not the fault of the Athena which by the way is a great subwoofer. Far better than the one note sunfire or over rated Gallo. Now part two: I tested all the receivers at the same spl, not with the volume control level set the same. I don't ever punish any of my hifi gear and your comment of cranking it up all the way is a bit much. Your not dealing with a 16 year old who just bought his first stereo. The fact of the matter is the Outlaw is no more of a receiver than a Onkyo TX 8522, or a Yamaha RX-797 and is not close to being as dynamic or musical as the NAD C720BEE. I don't work for Outlaw or for NAD, what I do know is that the Outlaw is no bargin for what it offers. This is a direct order product made in China just as the others and probably in one of there factories offered direct at no better price than any of it's competitors. And as for the over 5 months I waited it was not worth the wait. I have given it to my son and have purchased another NAD as in my opinion it is by far the best 2 channel receiver on the market at this time. I've already seen the Outlaw RR2150 for sale on audiogon & Ebay so it must not be everybody's cup of tea. Regards...

No insult was intended - I'm just trying to help troubleshoot a situation that seems out of place in light of feedback from other sources (awards from Stereophile and Absolute Sound, comments from other owners, and the like), and as part of that I was trying to understand the specific circumstances. My interest in the RR2150 is pretty limited: I don't have one, don't have a place to use one, and haven't heard one, but I spend a lot of time around the saloon and tend to keep as up to speed as I can on what is happening around here. Your experience with the 2150 seemed to not fit with the typical reaction, so I thought it would help everybody involved (you, me, Outlaw, other readers) to understand exactly what your setup was. Call it a side effect of being an engineer and of having done a bit too much building commissioning and systems trouble-shooting, but I always start out with the most basic assumptions and make sure nothing's wrong there (whether it's with a person online about whom I know nothing, a friend I know well, or me and my own system). Obviously no product is going to be an ideal fit for every person, but the crowd around here can usually offer some useful feedback to make sure that disappointment or problems don't come from avoidable setup problems.

Not to harp on the issue (as I tune my harp...), but when you say that all four subs acted the same way, did they all bypass both the crossover and the sub trim? Or was it that you had trouble in general integrating all four subs with your main speakers? If it was the former, did you try setting the crossover as high as it would go and leaving it in the loop?

I tried every possible way to set it up and Peter Alt worked with me in the beginning so we went every avenue believe me. I no longer have the RR2150 so I no longer have the problem. I gave it to my son and bought another NAD C720BEE, problem solved.

Well, I have the RR2150 now and previously auditioned a NAD C372(A 150 wpc integrated amp) for a month. They each are great .... or they're not ....... depending on who's listening. Sound is highly subjective.

I personally would never again own a NAD. I found it lacked resolution and was rather dull in the high end. The tone controls added nothing usefull. It seems NAD tunes their brand top be heavy in the upper lower end, at the expense of everything else. In a direct comparison between my CD player(w/headphone jack), and the C372, I found myself wondering where the resolution was on the C372.It was just dull dull dull, it sounded like the treble was turned to minus 8 or something, it was unfixable and most importantly, unenjoyable. The direct output of the CD player was perfect,no coloration or lack of resolution, just sweet music. I kept asking myself, what's wrong here? This is a top NAD amp and it's very disappointing. I thought of all the reviews I had read about it .... how NAD was supposed to be so "musical" or whatever the adjective may be. Great resolution? ....What were they thinking? I have no answer, other than we all hear differently.

The RR2150 compared to the NAD is more balanced and there's no bloated sound. The resolution is very good and the overall tone for me is neutral and well balanced. I'd call it easy on my ears. The bass appears(at this time) a little leaner on the 2150, but using the speaker EQ can change that(and it's user selectable), and it's not overly bloated.The power supply of the NAD was somewhat noisy also(suprising for a $900 unit), the RR2150 is very quiet.

On the other extreme, I found the Yamaha RX-777 to be such a screecher(harsh high end) that it was unlistenable. It sounded like Yamaha tunes theirs heavy on the treble. It was so off balance for me, it was unrecoverable and ulitmately unlistenable.


I can't say the RR2150 sounds vastly better than a Harman HK3480(sounds neutral and balanced to me), which I also own, but it is built with better components. The HK has a easily heard buzz from the power supply the moment it's plugged in.It's barely audible thru the speakers, but highly audible through the headphone jack, making headphones unusable with it. The RR2150 though, is absolutely silent ... no power supply noise. The headphone output is quiet and very good.

The bottom line is there's no perfect amp. It all about knowing what's most important for me/you, the listener, and finding the amp that comes the closest to that. I say closest because inevitably there will be some compromise, because no manufacturer can make an amp that fits the needs and wants of everyone. It's a two way street.

I'm a consumer like everyone else here. I have no stake in Outlaw or anyone else, it's all about the sound. As far as value, when it comes to sound, sure, sometimes cheaper products sound as good as more expensive ones, but there's no free lunch. .Compare the RR2150 to HK or NAD in the power supply.The Outlaw is dead quiet, the others are not. I'm no engineer, but I suspect filtering noise out of a power supply isn't cheap or easy, or else everyone would do it. Some people may never notice or hear the difference, but I do.

If NAD sounds better to you, I'm glad you found something you like..... as I said, everyone listens differently . How we listen also changes ..... hourly, daily, monthly ,over years or by night ....... we're not robots.

How does Outlaw's internet direct pricing compare with anyone else ? Do we get a better value? I have no idea, the prices are what they are, take it or leave it. I'm a consumer, so how a business comes up with their prices is up to them, and really none of my business. The magic formula ? Buy what you like up to what you can afford, period

-Garth

I was in Harvey Electronics today at the ABC Home/Carpet store in lower Manhattan on 17th st. & Bdwy, and got to listen to the C720BEE receiver. They also have my CD player there, (bought it there actually) which is the NAD C521BEE and ran them through some Sonas Faber's.

Unfortunately, the set up was not optimal, since one of the CD's used was a burned disc w/Mp3's and the other disc available wasn't really reference material. I'll probably go back next week w/my own CD's and give another listen, since the sales guy was more keen on that anyway.

What I'd really like to do however, is bring my RR2150 over there when it arrives, and hook it up to their stuff, so I can do a side by side comparison. I'm going to call the sales guy (Chris) and see if that's cool.

My initial impressions w/it though, was that it sounded a bit veiled on the mid bass range, which was a bit annoying. Resolution didn't really impress me all that much either, compared to some things I've heard before, but it wasn't that bad either. Of course the speakers are a big part of this, so to be fair, perhaps they weren't paird up as well as they could have been. Soundstage was IMO, a bit thin, but not completely out of reach.

To be honest though, I can't see how the RR2150 could be any worse than the 720BEE in terms of sound quality, but am looking foward to hearing it for myself. The ohter issue/point I feel should be mentioned though, is that for the $$ (they're both the same price MSRP -$599) the Outlaw offers some things which the NAD doesn't. Phono stage for one thing, is important. I'd have to shell out more dough for a phono pre-amp if I bought the NAD. Then there's the USB port, as well as dedicated input for Mp3 type devices.

So if the sound quality is at least the same as the NAD's, then it pretty much seems logical to me, to go for the Outlaw.

Doug

Here is my general reaction to these comparisons.

In a piece like the RR2150, what I would be looking for is primarily "doesn't do anything annoying". Given the reviews it looks like it does some things pretty darn well, but the review that caused me to place my order was Mikey Fremer's putting it into a no-holds-barred system. The fact that he played music through it for at least two days from a very very good source through very revealing speakers spoke volumes for me. It didn't do anything that made him yank it out of the system. That to me in a $600 receiver is very good because at this price point there are compromises made all over the place in the design and build.

Just my $0.02....Roger

"Something that doesn't annoy or offend" . . . That's a good reference for me also Roger.

At this price range(<$1000) there was something offensive about every unit I have tried, including Marantz,NAD, Denon, Yamaha,Onkyo,Sony and Harman Kardon..... all due to their sound. The RR2150 has been an exception.

The only flaw I have found in the RR2150 so far is adjusting the volume using the remote. Using the control on the reciever is fine, but with the remote it is almost unusable . With headphones it is impossible to make small adjustments. It seems like the adjusments are anywhere between +3db and +6db per tap of the remote.... and that's if you have good reflexes! Using the remote is like Morse Code or something...... you have to use a combo of micro taps and macro taps to try to get to the desired level. If I had to rely on the remote to adjust it, I probably could not keep the unit. Luckily I do not, but I sure feel for those that do Just because the unit is labelled "retro" , shouldn't mean the remote volume adjustment needs to be inferior to about every product out there today. Yes, that's harsh ..... but honest. A linear volume control would work better, and I would gladly pay extra for it, and it would not take away any of it's "retro-ness".

-Garth

Well I'm glad to see everyone likes there Outlaw RR2150 as well as I like my NAD C720BEE. I agree totally with peoples hearing all being different and that some find the Outlaw more pleasing to there ears than the NAD. I still think the NAD's 50 watts per channel has more bass extension, more detail, midrange on the two is very close and the top is is much better on the NAD. I also found that the soundstage is wider and fuller on the NAD and this may be the speakers I'm using with it. One system includes the NAD C720BEE receiver, NAD C542 HDCD Player, NAD T534 DVD Player, A pair of Revel F 12 Concerta Floorstanding Loudspeakers and a Athena AS-P 4000 Subwoofer, A Sony Bravia XBR 40" HD LCD T.V., All Cobalt cables. Another system includes the NAD C720BEE receiver, Oppo DV-970HD DVD/CD Player, JVC XL-F258 CD Changer, Sony SLV-675HF VCR, Hughes AK-500 SRS Retriever, Monitor Audio Silver RS-6 Floorstanding speakers, Athena AS-P 400 Subwoofer, Olevia 532H 32" HD LCD T.V.. I also have a system in my studio that uses some older electronics like Marantz, Audio Dynamics, Monitor Audio, Philips, Linn turntable. I think the speakers work well with the NAD, better than they did with the Outlaw. It only makes sense that the majority of people on this site will vote for the Outlaw since this is Outlaws website. It doesn't matter to me who likes NAD, but I sure see alot of people pairing there CD players and DVD players with the outlaw RR2150. I also believe that my Oppo 970 is a better DVD/CD player than my NAD T534 and the Oppo was $149.00 and the NAD was $500.00. Again simply my opinion...

I gotta ad something else... I just came from my son's and he has the Outlaw hooked up to a pair of Athena ASF2 Floorstanding speakers and a Athena AS-P 4000. Now he tried something I didn't. He is running the F2's through the Athena via low level, speaker terminals and by passing the sub out and bass management all together and all I can say is WOW! Truly amazing to say the least. I have been a person over the years that really believed that the name game and price paid made the difference but that is far from true. I have learned in the past 5 or so years that todays equiptment like Outlaw, NAD, Oppo, Athena are truly fine components and at a very good price. You no longer need to spend a arm & a leg to get a really great sounding system. I can't wait to hear the Athena LS-500's.

Very interesting observation. Are you curious now to do more side by side comparisons with all the equipment you and your son have ? I'd be curious myself actually, and would really like to hear your opinions of the Outlaw Vs. your NAD on different speakers, bypassing the sub as you have done up above.

Doug

I might do a few more comparisons, kind of a pain now that it's at my son's place. Since there starting to show up for sale on audiogon and ebay now maybe I'll pick up another just to play around with it.

The one 2150 I saw on Audiogon a few days ago was going for $575 - not exactly a bargain in comparison to $600 for a new one...

There's one for $650.00 as well. The new ones took a price increase, no longer $599.00. I guess they have a point, at least there's no wait!

They haven't raised the price yet, though - not until they are shipping from inventory - so that one for $650 is even less of a bargain.

They're still $599. Put one into your cart .
I saw the one for $650 on Audiogon ...... I hope no one buys it from the seller because he's trying to rip someone off.Not only that, you get no warranty. Even the one at $575 is no deal at all ..... no warranty.

Sadly, the old saying holds true ....... there's one born every minute.

You get a warranty - Outlaw's warranties are fully transferrable. That's one reason that Outlaw's gear retains is resale value so well.

I would say this: a product that is getting 88% to 100% of its future new value and 96% to 110% if its current new value can't be too shabby a piece of electronics.

So it still has a warranty, then $650.00 with no wait doesn't look so bad after all. I got a email before mine arrived stating that all new orders were going up to $649.00 plus shipping so it doesn't sound to bad. Hell at least you don't have to wait 5 and a half months like I did to find out you don't like it!

But in the end, bughunter, you did admit to liking the RR2150—just in an alternate (more suitable?) setup.

My RR2150's 2 year warranty does not say if it is transferrable or not. I'd ask Outlaw before assuming anything. The warranty may or may not be different for different products.

I don't think the wait for future orders will be like it has been. There's nothing like new products

That's true but it's a shame that with all the hype it doesn't seem to surpass the HK 3480 and it can be bought for $200.00! I'll have to listen to one of those before I spend anymore money just for comparison reasons.

Well no, you'd have to spend a signifigant amount(probably at least $1500-2000) to improve appreciably on the sound of the HK 3480. I own one. My problem with the HK is the amount of electrical noise that comes from it ..... it buzzes like an electrical tower.With sensitive headphones and speakers it is rather annoying to hear this in the background. I tried 4 different units from them , all the same. I also question durability of the unit. They're inexpensive for a reason. That said, it's a very appealing unit, I like the linear and blue lit volume control . It sounds quite good, and it "appears" to be an excellent value .... I say "appears" because what value is it if it is noisy ....and I've read a number of premature failures from HK. These are the days of throw away electronics ..... and these more or less are for the price paid for them. Have you ever wondered how HK can offer 2 3380-Z's and 2 3480-Z's(refurbs) per day on Ebay for bid? That's a whole lotta refurbished units !!

All brands are hyped, not just Outlaw. Every brand has their bashers and their promoters. Is the RR2150 worth twice the price of an HK 3480? (the $200 ones are refurbs,new ones about $275 and up) If it takes twice the money to filter out the DC noise, then so be it.... it's well worth it. I've learned value is all about perception, because there is no formula for it .... except in our personal brains. It is not dependent of dollars at all.

Did I want to spend the extra to get a RR2150 ? .... not really ..... but because of the noise of the HK I had to find an alternative. That one thing was offensive to me ..... and no fixable. We're lucky to find a unit that sounds good and doesn't offend us in some way that we don't want to use it. You really have to know yourself to find a suitable "whatever" you buy.

So ... is the RR2150 a good value? Are there better brands and models? Each listener must decide for themselves. . . . . that's why there are so many brands and models. It's like falling in love(buying an amp or whatever) ...... you're so enamoured with the other, you look past all the faults. Then one day you wake up and find them no longer so teriffic ...... and wonder what was I thinking? You start looking at others(people or products)...... and eventually break up(sell your goods). You immediately go on a search for another.... hopefully wiser from the last experience .... but often not !

Good day, Garth

All of Outlaw's warranties are transferrable - I'm sure the 2150 is no exception. You are also quite right that the lengthy delay in getting product in hand this year is not going to be the normal situation from here on out. As Outlaw stated when they announced the delay, they have moved production to the new factory specifically to eliminate the shortages (previous factory couldn't keep up), and now that the new factory is geared up they should be able to keep 2150's in stock just like they do any other product.

I don't know anything about future delays in the production of the RR2150 as I'm only a consumer. I also have not heard of the noise with the HK-3480 but then again you may have received a lemon. I've talked to three people who own the HK-3480 and one who owned the Outlaw RR 1250 who changed over to the HK-3480 and noise is not a issue at all. So again we all hear differently and what will we do? I believe that we all have to be realistic when we listen and review all these components. All receivers, intergrated amps, power amps sound different as well as the speakers or other components we use with them. You can drive a pair of Klispch Horns with just about anything! Then again try to drive a pair of Thiels with 20 watts per channel. Outlaw seems to make some very nice products, they aren't Krell or Simaudio but neither is the price. I had some dislikes with Outlaw but it was all with products in the same or close to the same price range. I just wonder how it's going to hold up after the change in manufacturing from the original. I mean who made the original and who's making it now? I guess this is a question we aren't allowed to ask or should I say allowed to know...

We haven't been told the exact identity of either factory, true enough. (One could argue that you very rarely are told what specific factory builds your electronics, but that's sort of an indirect response.) The design is the same, of course, and if consumer electronics design has anything in common with construction (the area where I do my engineering) then Outlaw established specifications, scheduled specific parts to be used (possibly with named equals that could be substituted), and has the ability to oversee the manufacturing in order to see to it that the end product is at least equal.

The reason for the factory change was stated by Outlaw to be the original source's inability to keep up with demand. Beginning around last December, they've been constantly struggling to keep up with demand, especially after Stereophile's review - making it the only Outlaw product that I've ever seen have chronic supply problems. The logical assumption to be made is that they had assurances (backed up by some nice, hard numbers) to tell them that the new factory could keep up with the supply, otherwise they would have never taken the pretty drastic measure of relocating production after introducing the product to market.

I think garthr has summed things up very well: each listener is the best (some might say "only") judge of what is right for him or her, and no one piece of electronics is going to be right for everyone. That's part of what makes forums like this one so interesting, useful, and sometimes contentious: lots of different viewpoints, each based on a different perspective. Now that RR2150 shipments have begun again in significant numbers, this forum is beginning to see more and more of those different viewpoints, which is a great resource for both owners (comparing tips and ideas for making best use of the 2150, for example) and prospective owners (looking for first-hand feedback from multiple viewpoints).

In regards to the HK 3480, I went thru 4 of them .... all the same electrical noise. The last one was even a from a long waited fresh batch from China(even HK has delivery delays you know). I gave it to my father.

Without using headphones, the I really didn't notice the noise. I had to start using headphones at times because of my neighbors...... and that's when I noticed it. I tried 5 different models of headphones before settling on the Sennheiser HD-595's, and the noise came through in all of them. Once I was aware of the sound, I wondered why I didn't hear it through the speakers ..... and in a silent room I realized it was there...... faintly, but there. In this case .... ignorance was bliss.... awareness was not !

Again though ..... we all hear differently. Certain sounds and frequencies affect us in different ways...... usually we're not even aware of it until some moment hightens our awareness of it.

Now, one can wonder if the RR2150 is worth it comapred to the HK. For perspective, I was underwhelmed by the $900 NAD C372 integrated amp.I preferred the HK sound to it also.... and the dollar comparison is 3 to 1. Listening pleasure doesn't care about what costs what. If you can purchase something that sounds good and doesn't offend you in any way .... buy it.... regardless of price.

Being frugal by nature, I've learned over time that there's a time for spending a little more than think I "should". What are "shoulds", but self imposed limitations? There are so many unexpected ways to gain and lose money, the energy wasted thinking about it is far worse than actually spending it.

-Garth

Hmmm good point, this is something for me to think about, or not. I am trying to decide between the Rega Apollo and the Meridian G06 CD players. The Meridian is 3x the $ as the Rega.. but it does sound better!! But 3x better?? Decisions decisions Will probably end up with the Oppo until I hit the Lottery.

Man the Oppo is sweet and so is the price. I see on audiogon that they are taking the Oppo 970 and upgrading it and selling it for $1095.00! At this point in time I'll stick with my $149.00 version as it does more and sounds as good as my Nad HDCD 542 & NAD DVD T534 combined and I like NAD products. Over the years I've probably spent as much on audio & video magazines as I have gear! Damn those reviews, they just keep making it harder for me to put that money in my retirement fund...

Well JimP, try it this way . Of course it's hard to quantify the sound of A vs. B in terms of dollars.

If you were given the Apollo today, would you be happy with it? Is there something about it you dislike or offends you to the point you could not live with it ? If not, you'll be very happy with it.

Of course , nothing really sounds 3x better . It's good to get what you really want ..... but probably not to the extent that you have to change your lifestyle or your only hope is the lottery Only you know that.

There's always something that sounds a little better isn't there? But, the "better" you go, you pay 2,3,4,5,6 times for that little bit. For some it's worth it(and have the cash) , some not.

-Garth

Well, in my case, the recent RR2150-driven upgrade cost about 3x what I had previously, but the result is easily 10x better. Just acquired the last piece of the puzzle—a custom-made SonoSilence One passive preamp—today. I must say that as cool as it is to hear what my fellow Outlaws are going through, it's going to be such a relief to stop thinking about all this stuff and just sink into listening.

I grabbed the owner's manual for the AS-P400, and with one of the RCA inputs, it really does bypass the sub volume control. I've never seen that level of stupidity before! It may be a fine subwoofer, but that's a major bug. I assure you Bug, all other subs I have ever seen are different. The bypass input must not disable the subwoofer level control on any sub I would own.

I really think you should have tried the other low-level input before dumping the 2150.

Toronado, if you go back and review some of my post's you will see that I did try both sub inputs and the regular input that lets you use the volume and crossover worked fine except the volume was at almost full output and I thought that wasn't right. I agree that the idea of bypassing the volume control isn't a good idea, I believe that's one of the reasons that they went to the 4000 series. Like I said, the sub worked fine with the NAD when used with the regular input.

I assume you used a calibration disc, test tones, or some other means of adjusting the sub's volume control so that it matched with the mains, right?

Bughunter, I'm just glad you've got something that works to your satisfaction. NAD is good stuff.

gonk, Yeah I tried all the disc's from Stereophile, HiFi and others and the Sub output was WEAK! The sub output on the NAD which has no adjustment mind you with my Athena AS-P 4000 set at # 3 on the volume was window shattering. The same subwoofer on the Outlaw using the bypass or the bass management was set on volume # 8 to achive the same volume but did not extend as deep! Now you explain the problem... I say I either got a lemon or the outlaws sub oulet is just plain WEAK!. Now I'm sure you all are going to say I must have got a lemon BUT indeed my friend in Tampa has had the same results which tells me that the output is different on the two receivers. Hail to the Outlaw owners that have not compared it to the NAD C720BEE as you are in for a hugh surprise when and if you do. What I'm saying is if you can't purchase both to compare you will never know unless of course you have a friend that has the NAD to compare it to. I simply stand by my finding, that is the Outlaw's subwoofer output is weak and the bass management does not make up for it when comparing it to the NAD C720BEE Receiver. Also the 100 watts per channel of the Outlaw do not surpass the NAD's 50 watts per channel in any way! I don't care what it may say on paper as I can't hear paper. I'm listening with my ears and what I hear is a 50 watt per channel NAD receiver that's sounds better in all respects than a 100 watt Outlaw receiver. I'm not trying to upset anyone or start some kind of fight here, I only stating what I hear with my components and speakers. By the way, my son gave me back the Outlaw and kept his Onkyo so again it's all in what we hear a what we all like. You know it applies to everything including HDTV's, Cars, Homes, Women/Men and so on. Again this is what I hear and my opinion and that's all...

I'll say this: Compared to what some of you Outlaws have in your homes, my system is probably about the equivalent of a "Close-N-Play" kiddie turntable, but all this talk about subwoofers just makes me doubly glad I have no need for one.

I actually passed on the NAD C720BEE, after hearing it in an audio store before I went for the RR2150. Sounded fine, but the salesman thought I should go for the watts and actually mentioned the Outlaw. He even tried to sell me a cheaper Marantz for the higher power output, but I was pretty determined to buy something solid state. In the end, I'm with Toronado: It's great that everyone seems to have found something that works to their satisfaction. I'm beginning to think that bughunter doth protest too much, though.

Bughunter,

As most people know, I rarely surface in the saloon. However, I have been reading your posts for the last few weeks and to say the least, I am astounded by your comments.

Let me begin by saying that I know a lot about NAD. I actually started the company here in the US and ran it for thirteen years. During my tenure, I was responsible for overseeing the development of over 120 products, including integrated amplifiers,preamps, power amps, receivers, tuners, and a few cassette decks and cd players thrown in for good measure. The C72020BEE (Named for my friend and colleague Bjorn Erik Edvardson) is indeed a fine unit, as is all of the NAD gear. NAD is truly a great company.

Those of us alumni who were at NAD in those early days embraced a certain philosophy about product design, especially amplifiers-conservatively rating power, ample headroom, the ability to drive low impedance loads without current limiting and many other elements of good solid engineering. We have all carried on these design to the other companies we work for.

For the record, I can now tell you that in the development of the 2150 there were, including myself, four NAD alumni involved in the development, testing, and validation of all the circuits.

We know what the 2150 is capable of and we are here to say that it is under-specked, period. The power easily SURPASSES 100 watts into 8 ohms and delivers substantially more power into 4 ohms and lower. If you doubt that, please refer to the latest issue of Home Theater Magazine for their own measurements. They will verify everything I have just stated. Your claim about the 50 watt NAD having more power has no basis in fact-- only in your opinion. Also, your comments about low subwoofer output are not consistent with anything we have seen on ANY 2150.

On our side, we are more than willing to take a look at your 2150 to determine if something is defective or has failed, and you are aware of that.


You have complained about this product in several posts, obviously expressing your great disappointment. Yet within your evaluation period, (which is still active), you have chosen not to return the unit. Your decision, to say the least, is puzzling to us.


However, without our taking a look at your unit to see if anything is wrong, please do not insult our intelligence and that of multitudes of very happy customers (and several well known reviewers) by making claims that are wrong and misleading. If you doubt what we say, please visit your favorite local dealer and ask him to put your 2150 on the test bench. Ask him to test it at 8 ohms, 4 ohms and even 2 ohms. Also, please ask him to measure the voltage-out on the subwoofer jack. Then please ask the dealer to call Scott directly on our toll free number with the test results.

If you prefer the sound of the NAD, we have no problem with your opinion. That is what makes this industry so interesting. That notwithstanding, your claims on inadequate power or low subwoofer output have no merit until verified by us or a qualified technician.

Sincerely yours,
Peter Tribeman
President,
Outlaw Audio

Where is my R2150 Peter?

Thank You,

This kind of moment is what I hang out on forums to experience. That last exchange was probably the best I have seen on any forum.

Peter, Well I guess I have to take your word about being involved with NAD in the past and if in fact it's true you've lost your touch because the Outlaw is no threat to any NAD product. The Outlaw that I received was in no way more powerful or had a better sub output than the NAD C720BEE and I don't care what you say! I would say that most of the people on this forum don't have the equiptment, time or knowledge to measure our hi fi gear. You seem to forget that we as consumers rely on our hearing and not your specs when we listen. I know what I heard from my Outlaw as well as two others and they all sounded the same, weak sub output and a simple 100 watts perchannel. You for some reason think you guys at Outlaw Audio have come up with some special never done before 2 channel receiver. Far from it... For $600.00 you can buy a 100 watt per channel receiver anywhere and most for alot less. Direct mail order only, why don't you have dealers? If this product is so amazing I'm sure people would pay more wouldn't they? I mean you can buy most any 100 watt receiver from a dealer for less take it home listen for 30 days and take it back if you are unhappy instead of shipping it back and waiting for a refund. I now have the Outlaw back, I gave it to my son and he ended up giving it back. I have since boxed it up and I'm thinking of putting it on Ebay but somehow I feel whoever buys it won't be happy either and they will probally want there money back. I see more and more of them showing up on Ebay, Audiogon and Audioweb. I guess that means not everybody is as fond of them as you. By the way, never talk down to your customers, It could come back and bite you in the ass...

Peter said it is still within the trial period, send it back, and move on.
As much as you say you dislike it, it seems like a no brainer, but after folowing this entire thread it seems you have an agenda.

No agenda at all, simply my opinion which I can see is not allowed here. I did just as Peter asked, I contacted two local Hi End dealers who both sell NAD. I asked if I could bring the Outlaw in and compare it side by side with the NAD C720BEE and asked if he would bench test it. He laughed and hung up. The second NAD dealer said simply to tell Outlaw they are a bricks and mortar store and they have no interest in testing any direct order hi fi gear. He said if Outlaw was a real company they would have dealers that sold other products to compare them with side by side. I have to say I agree as you have no idea what you are getting until it arrives and then you have 30 days which to return it which is far more of a pain then to load it in the car and return it and have something else the same day. It's nice to be able to go into a store and look at and handle the item before you purchase but more and more companies are eliminating the middleman to sell direct. And I for one do not believe the Outlaw 2150 is worth more then the asking price of $600.00. We will see how many of the dedicated Outlaw listeners unload the 2150 when more of them start having flickering lights, weak sub outlets, problems with the volume control, power on buttons that are hard to push on, noisey usb connections and so on. A great receiver to say the least!

It's this sort of attitude that has put companies like Outlaw, SVS, Axiom, Aperion, OPPO Digital, HSU Research, AV123, and other Internet-direct outfits on the map - and seen more and more brick and mortar shops closing up shop. Those are all real companies with real products. In contrast, the local Paradigm dealer in my area has now closed - due probably in large part to the fact that the only way to hear many of the products they "carried" was to ask them to order them for you. I know two people who were (and in at least one case is still) interested in Paradigm Studio speakers but could only hear them in my home because the Paradigm dealer never had any in stock and had no intention of ordering any to keep on hand for demos or impulse sales. I also know a co-worker who bought ~$2500 or $3000 in Rotel electronics (at list price) from a major brick and mortar dealer in town and couldn't even get a simple question answered because he wasn't paying $100/hour for custom install and setup. Contrast both of those to companies like Outlaw, where you can order something and try it for 30 days and where you can pick up the phone or keyboard and get extensive setup help from the company.

Google is your friend ...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bughunter:
[QB] No agenda at all, simply my opinion which I can see is not allowed here.

No, just the opposite, it is allowed, it is on the second page of you posting you disapproval, which is fine, but if you dislike it, send it back for a refund.
Isn't it more of a hassle to sell it on ebay than to return it? not to mention you are trying to sell something that may or may not have a defect to some unsuspecting buyer? let Outlaw test the unit, if it is defective they will replace it or give your money back, if nothing is wrong with it, someone can buy it B stock at a discount.
Forgive me, but I am just not following your logic.

Well we have two other opinions on the topic of direcet order items. I don't know where you live or who you deal with but I'm in central Florida where there are many high end Stereo/HT dealers that have everything in stock and if they don't it will be there within a few days for me to audition. I own a oppo 970 and I ordered it direct but they also have dealers. My problem is I really like to see the item in person, feel the controls, hear how it sounds before I get it home even though it will probally sound a little different in my room I have a good idea of what I'm buying. Looking at a picture and reading specs tells you nothing! It may look good on paper but sound like crap and you all know that's true. If I would have been able to see the Outlaw in person and played around with it and heard it I would not have purchased it. I guess my main bitch is I waited over 5 months and I think that sending it back is a joke. I don't need the $600.00 and I may find someone to bench test it so I can really have some news. The reason I say that is two other people I know have the same receiver and they are no different from mine. They don't use subwoofers so that's not a big deal to them. The one uses it for the Phono stage and he says it's as good as the older receivers he's owned in the past that had MM/MC options but no better. Also both state that the power is a basic 100 watts per channel. We are talking like this is a serious piece of audio equiptment when it's nothing more than a mass produced chinese made mid fi stereo am/fm receiver with a USB port! Until you get up into Krell, Audio Research, Musical Fidelity, Cary and so on we are dealing with low to mid fi mass produced stuff, some of which gives alot of band for the buck. Like I said before, I expect to get crap from pretty much everyone here as it is Outlaws site... Remember this is the United States and I can still express my opinion even if the President of Outlaw doesn't like me. Peace.

Bughunter, you make NAD out to be the second coming of audio nirvana or something. I've tried some of their goods and wasn't impressed, I returned it .... end of story. You obviously havn't read too many other forums to learn NAD has more than their share of relaibility issues also. Everyone does.

You're the kind of customers retailers dread..... they complain and run. They don't let the retailer attempt to offer any satisfaction , rather the customer continues to relish in their dismay and wants everyone to know how disappointed they were to receive a product they did not like or was defective in some way. Now you complain about having to return it by mail and wait for a refund. Did you read the return policy and understand what mail order means before you purchased it, or assume that Outlaw would come pick up your receiver at your home if you didn't like it?

If Outlaw sold you a bad unit, it's their respnsibility to repair/replace or refund it for you. If you don't give them a chance , then that's on you..... blame no one but yourself .

Yes, this is an open forum and you can express any dismay you like ......it's so open we're all allowed to make an asses of ourselves if we wish to. There's no rule in the user agreement(did you read that either?) you have to be pro-outlaw, it just happens that most people who hang out here like something about their goods., or they sell it and move on.

Stuff happens ..... stuff breaks ...... Now, when/if your precious NAD has a problem .... hopefully you'll give them more of a chance that you did Outlaw ..... break the cycle of ignorance .

Hey Bughunter:

I think you've been out there chasing mosquitoes for so long that you can't think straight. Peter said he'd take it back. Why the hell would you put it on ebay! Weird.

Bughunter:

If you are unhappy with the product send it back. It's that simple. Don't spend all your time moaning and groaning about it. Why would you even waste your time trying to sell it on ebay?

I bought the 2150 several months ago and love it. Based upon this unit I will probably upgrade my home theater system to Outlaw equipment. The retail experience today in many markets is not that great for top end equipment. Not much support unless you really know the people who own the company. Outlaw is very prompt with resolving any problems that crop up. Enough said.

Bughunter, you are entitled to your opinion and to share it - although one does wonder why you are sharing it here if you don't plan to be an owner, and also why you don't just return the item. But the main thing that has me scratching my head is when you wrote:

the power is a basic 100 watts per channel

What exactly does a "basic 100 watts per channel" sound like, and how do you distinguish it from, say, 125 WPC? Do you mean it does not play loud? Does it not handle difficult loads? Is it not dynamic? How do you know without measuring it? Honestly, this seems like a bold claim to make flatly without anything more specific.

I did not compare my RR2150 to NAD or HK or any other mid-fi receiver. I do know it is somewhat more dynamic than the 160WPC Thule it replaced and has better bass control to boot. Not quite as refined but maybe that gets better with burn in. But by every measure of listening it seems as or more powerful than the Thule (which cost 3x as much) - in both cases driving my not-very-efficient Audio Physic Step speakers.

"We are talking like this is a serious piece of audio equiptment when it's nothing more than a mass produced chinese made mid fi stereo am/fm receiver with a USB port! Until you get up into Krell, Audio Research, Musical Fidelity, Cary and so on we are dealing with low to mid fi mass produced stuff, some of which gives alot of band for the buck."

What is the relevance of this? You were the one who started this thread talking about how underwhelmed you were with the RR2150's sound.

Let me give a different perspective - I actually think the RR2150 holds its head pretty high in the company of some of the high-end gear you mention. Agreed, it is not as revealing or dynamic as some good high end gear. There is definitely more magic with some of that stuff (although it can sound like s**t with the wrong combination of components). But so far I am pretty happy listening to my RR2150 even when coming into the room from my back room Lyra / Immedia / Herron / Audio Physic / Yamamura rig. I feel like I got pretty good bang for my buck and mostly I enjoy the music.

Just my $0.02....

As a 990 owner I hope I'm not intruding in this room of the Saloon, but I've been following this thread with some interest. LP Spinnin' Fool has pretty much raised the point I was going to - that someone claiming to judge by sound only is not in a position to make meaningful claims about power output differences of 3 db or less. As some of you surely know, a 3-db difference in power delivered to speakers is about the smallest difference that is easily audible (i.e., "just a little louder or softer"), yet it represents a doubling (or halving) of power. I think I wrote elsewhere that anybody really interested in quality should be paying attention to the first couple of watts of output, since that's where most of your listening is going to be - and particularly to the amount of odd-harmonic distortion in the signal, since that's the unmusical part. For those with Klipsch or other hornloaded speakers, make that the first 100 milliwatts.

Bug, not to offend or anything but, it DOES seem as if you have an agenda, even if you don't. On another note, I was in Harvey Electronics the other day (took the wife in order to plant some seeds ) and asked one of the salesmen, Rich, if he'd let me bring in the Outlaw (whenever I get it) in order to A-B with the NAD 720BEE, and he was happy to comply. Told me to call an hour in advance so he could set things up, and that was all.

When I do get the Outlaw, this shall be done.

Ok... When you get your Outlaw and that is another question you let me know your findings. Make sure you check out the Subwoofer output and the bass management section. I contacted another hi fi dealer in Tampa today to see if I could bring it in and he told me that if I purchased the item direct from a manufacture he wanted nothing to do with it. His feelings about Outlaw were not nice as he believes they are of lesser quality than most so I said thanks and hung up. I have found that one of the three local dealers has a tech that wants to put the Outlaw in his store for comparison purposes. He states that any of his Cambridge, NAD & Integra integrated amps or Receivers will out perform it and I'm going to let him use it and see what happens. It seems like everyone on this site is set on the Outlaw blowing all other compariable components away so we will see. Like I said in my past postings, I have heard two others and they all sound the same... All have weak subwoofer outputs when compared to my NAD C720BEE and that's what I was comparing it to in the beginning. Now it's become a pissing match here. When I first got the receiver I was contacted by Outlaw by two different people. The first person didn't have a clue, the second is a designer at Outlaw and was confused by my findings and made many suggestions in which none worked. At first he didn't even know the bass management had a bypass. I'm not really impressed with Outlaw, as I said it's a run of the mill 2 channel mass produced receiver. My main bitch in the beginning was that the sub output is weak compared to my NAD and now I have an agenda.

Bug,
Have you made your point yet?

C'mon bughunter ...... You didn't like your receiver and you didn't return it. What more do you want from the forum? Do you have anything constructive to say ..... or just whine ?

It appears you want to keep it just so you can continue to whine and add other salesperson's opinion of a competing product they know nothing of. What do you think a brick & mortar salesperson's opinion is going to be of a mail only product?

Now you're looking for fellow whiners to jump on your bandwagon ....... how sad. If we had a weekly "just shut up" award ...... you'd win it..... again

You're right Bug...

Michael Fremer is full of shit and knows nothing about audio. He wouldn't know a quality piece of gear if it fell on him...or maybe not...

"...Give a listen to this $599 receiver. You'll be in for a big surprise—especially if you have megabuck electronics. If this was sold through the usual channels instead of exclusively online, it would cost twice as much and still be worth every cent..."

"... This little receiver delivered the deep bass on that gut-punishing record far more effectively than I could have imagined it would. The extension and punch were there, and while the control wasn't quite up there with my $23,000/pair, 1kWpc reference Musical Fidelity monoblocks, the RR2150 didn't embarrass itself..."

- Michael Fremer, Mar 06


"...The Outlaw RR2150 exceeded its 100Wpc specification by 1dB, delivering no less than 125W into 8 ohms (21dBW) at clipping, defined as 1% THD (fig.6). It gave 190W into 4 ohms (19.8dB), this 0.8dB higher than the specified 160W, and even managed 310W into 2 ohms with one channel driven (18.9dBW). That this $600 receiver managed to survive this high-power testing without blowing fuses or anything breaking is high praise. The RR2150 is a powerhouse!..."

- John Atkinson, Mar 06

(The above two quotations are cited below)

http://www.stereophile.com/integratedamps/306outlaw/

For an individual to waive the option to return a product due to dissatisfaction, but rather choose to detach themselves from the product by a means more likely to reduce the return on initial investment (ebay); it is highly probable that the individual:

a) is an idiot

b) Damaged the product in some way which revokes their return privilege leaving no choice but private sale.

C) lacks the ability to rationalize a situation (see point a)

None of the subwoofers he has appears to have a volume bypass. I just downloaded the manual for the Athena 400 and the 4000. Each manual contains instructions for setup that explain from 4-6 different ways of installation (depending on the sub).

Each method ends with the following:

"Adjust the Volume Control (knob #1 diagram #1) to match the output of the system.
This can be done to suit your personal taste, and room size. Start somewhere in the
middle of the dial and adjust as you feel is necessary."

- ASP400 Manual, page 3
(also on the ASP4000 manual, page 3)

The two RCA inputs on his subwoofer are the typical standard (crossover circuit) input and a bypass for a LFE channel. The volume control does not appear to be bypassed.

I would normally be more civil than this.

Bug,
I am glad you like your NAD, but I question your ability to properly operate your equipment. I am guessing that you have not properly integrated your subwoofer to your speakers and the addition of the bass management in the reciever is too much for you to handle.

First, there is no high-pass applied to the NAD speaker outputs, thus, the speakers are running full-range along with your added subwoofer output. The subwoofer output of the NAD is crossed at 100 Hz, attenuated at 3dB per octave above that.

Second, this means that your subwoofer channel is only down about 6 dB at 200, 9dB at 400, etc - well into the midrange. Without properly using the crossover of your sub, you are using it too high and creating an artificially high output in your low midrange.

Thus, what you are hearing as "authoritative bass" is really a hump in your frequency response of about 20dB from improperly integrating your subwoofer. I would like to see a chart of your frequency response from 20-20K. I doubt it is in any way flat - I imagine it looks like a mountain range.

The Outlaw is both high-passed and low-passed at 12dB. That means that the mains are not being forced to reproduce bass less than one octave below your chosen crossover and the amp will perform better. The output on the outlaw is not weak - you just don't know how to use it.

Further, you probably don't have your speakers set up correctly nor do you have the subwoofer in a position that best integrates with them. You may even be sitting in a null or spike in your room's acoustic response.

That's an excellent explanation audioferret . I get the feeling that bughunter is very inexperienced in using/buying/trying out audio gear. There's too much this guy said this and that . Maybe someday he'll look back at this experience and give him/herself a big Homer Simpson DOHHH !

Isn't it amzing how things work when you read the manual ? ...... you know ...... that bit of paper people hastily discard with the box like kids at christmas. Consumers do this all the time.

All of you Mouth breathin' moron's need to go back and read from the beginning! Now I guess I'm no longer supposed to take it to a dealer afterall and have it compared. What's the matter boys are we gettin' a little worried that it may prove to be a piece of junk? I'm not like the rest of you punks where I have to get up and go to work, I have all day to buy audio gear and play with it. That's what gives me the edge as I have time to find out what is worth the price and what is not. I have lots of money and time... If any of you would have read the previous remarks you would know that I tried many subwoofers and they were all hooked up in as many ways as could be. Don't be pissed at me because we all bought a receiver, waited months and it turned out to be a piece of junk. Now if you want to talk about a great piece that is a true bargain it's the Oppo 970. There's a company that has really done the job right! See ya Girls... LOL!

I forgot to ad, audioferret you are a true idiot!

Don't feed the trolls.

Agreed, I've not been in this forum that long, but from what I've seen it's been cordial and intelligent. .. . . no trollbait . . . . until this one.

I guess that's the beauty .... and the curse .... of online forums.. . . . we're free to be ourselves.

Sigh... Seconded.

Audioferret and Jayz both got it right. A whiney troll who has no concept of how to set up his(her) equipment and absolutely no clue of what bass is or how it sounds in a quality set-up (or live)!

I'm all for high-end products. I am having an electrostatic headphone amplifier/preamp manufactured for me for my home 2-channel set-up. I would hope it would smoke the Outlaw since it costs significantly more. But for my office system the Outlaw is just right especially with the USB and mini-jack inputs and the really good headphone output.

Oh BTW where exactly is this NAD receiver manufactured? I could find nothing on their web site or in amy of their PDF documents.

Lastly, just for the H of it, I called my local NAD dealer. I had never spoken to him before and have never been in his shop but he was more than willing to let me bring in the Outlaw (or any other equipment I want) to compare to any equipment he carries. His only request was that I set up an appointment to do so. I think you need to find a better dealer(s) Mr. Uniramia Seeker.

Agreed...

While I think that brother Bug has made some fairly indefensible statements, and his approach to problem solving makes no sense to me, it seems that name calling and other methods of backing him into a corner are really really not OK.

I disagree with him. He disagrees with many of us. Lets disagree civilly though. Please.

Roger

Well said, LP.

Sorry to see that this thread has degraded as such, because I was really curious to hear what Bug's impressions were, based on a comparison to equipment set up by one of his local dealers (who has an unbiased opinion), since I'm not able to yet.

On another note, I think that this conversation could have been kept civil, no matter what we thought. I presented my opinion to Bug, saying that it "sounded" like he had an agenda, even if he didn't, which is pretty much a diplomatic way of trying to say "perhaps you should be more practical in your decision making", which would refer to not sending the unit back if unsatisfied, while (as others have noted many times now) still whigning about it for no other apparent reason besides getting people worked up.

And while there have been insinuations tossed in Bugs' direction (the word idiot comes to mind), which weren't necessary, Bug, you certainly didn't have to degrade yourself to the level which you did by reverting to 5th grade school-yard antics. "I've got more money than you do" "I've got nothing but time and money"

Such ramblings, from anybody, does nothing but discredit their credentials, and lessen the level of trust which people will show for you in general. Bug, if you were at all sincere at any time, I'd ask you to (as I will others who've spoken against you in an immature nature, even if they feel it was justified) apologize, and let this matter sink.

I'd then ask you to go to said Hi-Fi store and do the comparisons, and reveal your/dealers salesmen results, that is if you haven't or won't return the Outlaw. Because if there is indeed a flaw in the product, and you can uncover it, I'm sure many other people would like to see this unfold...

Doug

Perhaps the whiney troll comment can be considered name calling but I hope no one thinks the above is name calling, merely an alternate form of bug hunter

However, the fact that so much time was spent complaining and yet the item was not returned destroys any credibility bug has as far as I am concerned. If you do not like an Outlaw product, return it and move on. You have the best place to audition the product, your system. I have yet to see a Brick-and_mortar establishment that can beat that for auditioning.

morphsci wrote: "I hope no one thinks the above is name calling, merely an alternate form of bug hunter "

LOL!!! I wondered...but would it not be more appropriate to label him "Hightailing after Heteroptera"???

ROTFLMAO

While I have not heard the NAD720BEE, I'm sure it is a fine piece of gear, and prolly at least comparable to the RR2150, but there's no way it is night and day better.

Please ban this troll!

I have heard you should beware of cornered anteaters.

Hmmm...haw...hmmm...haw...what the heck, I might as well wade in to the bug infested swamp if only to give my opinion on how NAD sounds compared to Outlaw.

I have to agree with this reviewer's assessment of NAD's sonic characteristics: NAD 218 THX Review

My own personal experience is limited to several NAD A/V receivers including the T742 and T752 as well as the Outlaw 1070 receiver. In a nutshell, the Outlaw sounds better but the NADs play louder. I had a few friends over just hanging out with some music in the background. Both of them were 'drawn in' to the sound of the Outlaw and sat down to listen to a few songs. It really sounded good --- particularly using analog inputs via the HPF/LPF 80Hz subwoofer setting. This did not happen when I had the NAD setup, however IMHO NAD seems to be in its element when played at a high volume level. If you're a bass-hound who like's to crank it, go for a NAD, otherwise I think the Outlaw would be more satisfying.

I am not one for hijacking a thread with pointless dribble and am thankful that helpful and committed communities like this exist.

This debate however borders on asinine all things considered.

Perhaps I could have delivered my statement in a more cordial manner, but considering how much time and patience many individuals devoted to resolving this situation only for it to be thrown back in their face...well I guess someone had to be the bad guy.

To those who feel my comment has compromised the integrity of these boards; for the sake of maintaining this environment I will adorn my politically correct cap and apologize for the insinuation.

Well, I guess I'm one of the few people who got a good RR2150, because mine is a rock solid performer. I love this thing!

Power, oh it has plenty of power to push my inefficient Mirage m3-si's to where I need them to be. My only complaint, none so far, except maybe the overall design of the unit. Other than that, I think Outlaw Audio makes one hell of a Stereo Receiver.

Now I just wish they would pop out a stereo preamp and stereo amp putting out 200wpc continious. That would be my next upgrade.

Judging by the number of units sold (which has to be pretty large by now) and the small number of reported problems seen in this forum, I think you're far from in the minority, fozzy.

Machine, don't sweat it - all bets were off after

"I'm not like the rest of you punks where I have to get up and go to work, I have all day to buy audio gear and play with it. That's what gives me the edge as I have time to find out what is worth the price and what is not. I have lots of money and time... ".

Name-calling sucks, bughunter, so here is a little tv trivia for you; What was Peg Bundy's (Married With Children) maiden name? Anyone?

I don't think this thread, or the Saloon in general, is served by rewarding all-too-memorable (and, I hope, regretted-by-this-time) quotations with references to potty humor. Maybe I'd better go back to my 990 room.

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I hope your time on your schooner was pleasant, but to be honest your posts this morning are pretty hostile (even ignoring the fact that this thread lapsed into silence three weeks before you left on your cruise). We all understand that the RR2150 did not agree with you, but I'd offer that there are clearly some other people who did find it to their liking.