RR 2150 and External DAC

After spending much time and money putting together a 5.1 (and ultimately 7.1) AV system with several Outlaw components, I am taking the plunge into a second 2-Channel set up. Since all roads lead to Rome, I find myself looking seriously at the RR 2150. It fits the bill nicely for my needs - except for one concern.

I'm just not thrilled about connecting an iPod to the front panel of the receiver via a mini-jack and hoping for the best. Since the 2150 has no digital inputs , I have been looking at exterior DAC and transport devices to provide a better interface for my iPod and the kids' iPhones. Such avenues can get pricey, but I'm willing to commit a reasonable sum in order to process the sound through something other than the DACs in Apple products.

Am I overthinking the issue? I'm interested in the thoughts of any of you who may have travelled that road.

Actually the RR-2150 does have a digital input; the USB on the back panel. I'm not all that versed in the variety of iPod accessories but is there one with a digital out via USB? If you are looking for a DAC I can recommend the Cambridge Audio DACMagic. I use it to feed digital inputs from my CD player, Airport Express and laptop to my vintage integrated amp with great success. Enjoy!

The RR2150's USB input allows the receiver to serve as a sort of "external sound card" for a computer. I doubt it would work with any iPod docks.

When using an Ipod as source, consider the overall signal path. Are you playing lossless files? If so, a dock with a good internal DAC or a dock with a digital output and a separate DAC might be worthwhile, but most docks have analog outputs and many of those use the iPod's internal DAC as well. If you are playing anything with lossy compression, spending a ton of money on the signal path may be kind of wasteful.

I've had pretty good results hooking an iPhone or iPad to the RR2150's auxiliary input. I did it knowing that I was playing a lossy source (albeit at a pretty good bit rate), so I didn't expect the same sound quality I'd get from a CD or SACD through the BDP-83SE, but it was still pretty pleasant.

There are CD players with a usb input for an ipod you could use. The best reason to get a dac, however, is not to play music from an ipod but from a computer. The usb input will do that on the RR2150 but there are better quality dacs you can use as well.

The company that makes the most "mainstream" way to hook an iPod to a DAC is probably Cambridge Audio -- http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/specifications.php?PID=605&Title=Specifications

I wonder how much of the $300 cost of this thing could be done by a much less costly solution???

Thanks for the input. I'm sold on the RR2150, it's the remainder of the stuff I'm still thinking about. One question for Gonk - is the drop in sound quality from CDs to the iPod accessed through the front panel mini-jack input on the RR2150 similar to the drop in sound quality between CDs and an iPod on a good car audio system? In reality, I headed toward buying the darn thing, plugging it all in and seeing what (if anything) I need to add later. I just like to know what I'm getting into...

I'm sure gonk can weigh in, but in my experience the limited quality of the DACs in most car audio and the very limited headroom of factory amps means the "step down" to the iPod as a source is not as noticeable as in most decent home audio systems...

One of the biggest diferences you are going to experience is the size, quality and design of the speakers. Most car stereo speakers are single cone without a tweater section or a decent crossover. Aside from that, they are generally much less responsive and the enclosures are not designed for sound quality. Because the speakers are so much better in the home (even the cheap ones) and they provide most of the coloration in a digital system, you will hear a big improvement in SQ.

Also not Gonk, but...yes, the drop off in quality will be similar to that between CDs and an iPod on a good car audio system.

FWIW, my experience:

First, ran my ipod through a standard ipod dock (uses the ipod dac) and connected it through the RR2150 analog input. Not bad, but room for sound quality improvement, as well as no charging for the ipod.

Then, I got an HRT istreamer DAC. Sound quality definitely improved (my wife felt moved to say "wow"), and it charges the ipod. Still the HRT requires an external power source and is a bit flimsy feeling--you use the standard ipod connection cable to hook up the ipod, and the dock is not compatible. Also, no remote.

Currently, I use the Apple airport express connected via toslink to an inexpensive external DAC. This lets me stream all my digital music using my ipod as a remote. Also, any ipod with airplay can stream through the airport express. I am enjoying Pandora streamed from my ipod as I write.

If you require ipod access, the airport express plus a DAC with toslink input is a good option. Perhaps not "audiophile," but a clear audio improvement over the minijack input, and very functional and convenient.

Ken

I'm not sure I understand what this product description says: "USB input for playback of streaming audio output from compatible computers".

So can I connect a Macbook via the USB and listen to, say 320 kbit/s MP3s?

Thanks.

Yes, you can connect a Macbook via the USB and listen to MP3s.

Not just a Macbook. You can attach virtually any computer via the USB. I do it with my kids laptops (Windows 7) and I seem to remember doing it with a old laptop running Ubuntu before the motherboard died.

I am not impressed with the sound quality using the usb input. I mainly listen to the RR2150 using a SB Touch and the SQ is excellent so it is not really a problem. Still I think the RR2150 is a fine product and deserves a better dac.

It should still be better than the sound card in the macbook, right?

I'm trying to choose between the RR2150 and the Emotiva XDA-1. Not apples and oranges, of course. I'd get the RR2150 to simplify my setup in the 2-channel room that already has a pre-amp and amp.

I ended up going with an external DAC to my Outlaw. I picked up a Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-09 (new model is TubeDac-11) which is a Tube/SS hybrid DAC/Headphone Amp for under $400. I've compared this DAC to friends units which cost over $1200, and most agree the combo with my Outlaw, Heresy IIIs and Paradigm Servo 15 blows their way more expensive systems out of the water!

I use an optical mini-Toslink cable from either my iMac or AirPort express to deliver the tunes through the DAC and into the Outlaw... I'd go that route, I tried may methods w/ the USB, Y-Cables, etc. and it just never had that right sound. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my 2150, but an external DAC is always better than an internal.

The emotiva xda-1 is a nice dac; I'd think it pair up well with the RR2150 and give you a bunch of digital inputs.

You do not need an external DAC with any Outlaw product. I have a 990 pre-amp processor and an RR 2150. I run the iPod into both, as well as my MacBook. The Outlaws recognize the Mac and act as a soundcard. The iPod also works in both.

If you need an external DAC unless you either have the world's best ears or running ultra higher end equipment.

I used external DAC's with the 990 and did near hear a difference. Yes on a scope you may see a difference, but our ears are not perfectly linear and any minor jitter is not worth the added expense.

Remember if you have Outlaw gear, you don't have Krell or better ultra high end quality, just really good mid to nearly high end quality. Believe me, it better than most people ever enjoy in high fi.

Former radio station engineer and self proclaimed debunker of so called audio nazis

^CE, what were the resolution of the files you were playing?

When my ears were a few years younger, I could tell the difference between a CD quality and 320 kbps MP3, for example, on my simple Pioneer as pre/pro --> Anthem MCA-50 --> B&W 601s. No telling what my ears can hear now.

I'm back on the market again as the Emo XDA-1 is on close out sale. RR2150 would simplify the set up since I can "get rid" of the Emo USP-1, XDA-1, and UPA-5. Although only one digital in the RR2150 is a slight concern.

I'm considering adding the Musical Fidelity V-DAC II D/A to my system which includes the RR2150 and the OPPO 970HD.
Anyone have any experience with this DAC?

Hello everyone! I have a question and ask for your expertise in helping me make a decision. I am looking at the RR2150 as a possible replacement for my Marantz NR1602 reciever.I wanted a 2.1 system from the start and chose this surround unit for amplification. I am only using a part of the amp though, by listening in stereo. My kit includes a Marantz CD5004 CD player, Martin Logan Source speakers, a Velodyne 12' Subwoofer, a new Panasonic 65" Plasma TV, cable box and a Roku HD. Blu-Ray is by Samsung. Everything is wired using Morrow Audio cables and protected / cleaned up by a Panamax power unit.
Do you think that the RR would make a drastic improvement in sound? I am also looking at a Rega RP-1 right now to get me back into vinyl!

I think the main things you'll be losing are:

1. Digital inputs (not counting USB)
2. Sub Input.
3. Video switching.

So as long as you are fine with your TV doing all the video switching and all you components can output full range, analog stereo outputs you should be fine. The bluray probably wants to output 2.1 at worse so you may have problems there.

Never heard the NR1602 but I have an RR2150 and it can rock the house.

Note that your Marantz also has room correction software. You didn't say if you were using this with you two channel setup though. The 2150 doesn't have room correction.