Subs

My 950, when I set my speakers to "Large" and "NO" subwoofer, they get all the frequencies they need, but if I hok up a sub and switch to subwoofer "On", I lose all lows to the speakers. My Mains are defTech BP7002, which have a built-in powered sub in each one...l.and my Center is a CLR2500 by DefTech, that also has a built in sub. My rear channels, which are DefTech BP2X, don't have built-in subs, but I am running the speaker cable to a Polk PSW-10 to handle the lows back there. It sounds great, don't get me wrong, but I have two more subs (a Velodyne CHT8 and another Polk PSW10). I plan on going to seven channels very soon (I have everything bu the speaker cable to do this...just waiting for the slow postal service here in the islands to get it to me), so I thought I would use the Velodyne, with speaker level in and speaker level out to the DefTech PM80's I currently have for side surround (My BP2X's are in the back for logistical reasons). This will leave me one more sub to hook up, and I wanted to use the Polk PSW10 as a dedicated LFE sub, but when I hook it up, even with my speakers all set to "Large", it takes all the oomph away from the other channels, thereby negating the built-in powered subs in them, giving me overall less thump. Is there a way around this?

And, after thinking about this some more, if I can't utilize the LFE Out on the 950 due to reducing the bandwidth sent to all the other speakers, can I just dedicate one PSW10 sub to each rear channel? I mean, I am using speaker level Ins and Outs, but if I just use the Right channel In and Out on one sub and use the Left on the other, will I still be getting as much out of the subs as I would if they were both run with Left AND Right Ins and Outs?

Any hints, tips, ideas will be appreciated....

When you turn the sub on, the LFE channel no longer goes to the mains. That should be the only real change. There will be a need to recalibrate the system to get the sub set to the right level, which is probably the first place to look.

Another thought: unless you are using 7 Stereo, the side and rear surrounds will rarely get a lot of bass, so hooking a sub to them may not be a very great use of that sub. It may be more effective (and simpler on your speaker wiring) to use a splitter from the 950's subwoofer output to run line-level connections to both the PSW10 and the Velodyne and then run the side and rear surrounds as "small" with an 80Hz crossover or so. That way both subs would handle the LFE and would pick up the occasional low frequency from the surrounds. Just something to think about...

"When you turn the sub on, the LFE channel no longer goes to the mains. That should be the only real change. There will be a need to recalibrate the system to get the sub set to the right level, which is probably the first place to look."

When I turn on the sub, since the LFE is only going to the sub, what frequencies are going to be going to my mains and center for their built-in subs?

"Another thought: unless you are using 7 Stereo, "
(which I will be doing as soon as I get my speaker cable in the mail from eBay)

"the side and rear surrounds will rarely get a lot of bass, so hooking a sub to them may not be a very great use of that sub. "
I dunno, the way I have it at the moment, with one PSW10 going speaker level in and out to the BP2X's in the rear as a 5 channel system, the PSW shakes the couch next to it pretty well...what are your thoughts on running speaker level in and out but only using one channel per sub? (one for left and one for right?)

"It may be more effective (and simpler on your speaker wiring) to use a splitter from the 950's subwoofer output to run line-level connections to both the PSW10 and the Velodyne and then run the side and rear surrounds as "small" with an 80Hz crossover or so."
That makes good sense, but it just seems that I lost so much from my Mains and Center when I set the sub to "On"

" That way both subs would handle the LFE and would pick up the occasional low frequency from the surrounds. Just something to think about..."
But would my built-in subs in the Mains and Center be utilized like they should be? By that, I mean will they get a full range signal? If, by setting the speaker to "Large" always means that they will get full range signals, then going with "Y" adapters and setting all three powered subs to run from the single LFE Out, and the speakers with the built-ins run with speaker wire inputs only sounds like a winner...

I am confused by this all, as, even when the speakers are set to "Large", then I still have crossover points to select, which confuses me....shouldn't it be getting full range when set to "Large"? Why even have the crossover option in that case?

Or is my 950 just so old and out of date that I will have to live with it until I can afford to upgrade?

I wouldn't say that - I think we just need to walk through the setup a bit at this point.

If the mains and center are "large" then they still get their full range. The mains had been also getting the LFE channel.

Personally, for the surrounds, I'm not sure I'd do it. It depends on what you're listening to, though. For movies or multichannel audio (DVD-Audio, SACD), there's rarely a lot of low frequency sent to the surrounds. If you use 5 Stereo or 7 Stereo, though, that changes the equation a bit. Of course, hooking those subs up to the 950's sub output will also get them some healthy bass to occupy them either way.

What were you listening to when you lost the "oomph" in the mains and center? And did you re-calibrate the system yet for the inclusion of a sub?

Having the mains and center set to large means they still get the full range of their associated signals, but the subwoofer output gets the LFE channel (the ".1" of a 5.1 source) and using a Y adapter allows you to send that LFE signal to multiple subs.

The crossovers are always shown in the setup menu, but they are not applied (no matter what they're set to) when the associated speakers are set to "large".

Thanks, Gonk, I think I have a plan now....I'm going to run one Polk PSW10 speaker-level in and out to the DefTech BP2X in the rear and the other PSW10 and the Velodyne CHT8 I will run with "Y" adapters to the LFE Out on the 950, with all my speakers set to "Large", except when I get the side surrounds hooked up, I will set them to "Small". I'll letcha know how it goes...

Thanks, for all your help, Gonk!

Well, after reading and re-reading and re-reading my 950 Manual...it SAYS that with my speakers set to "Large" that they will receive a full signal AND the LFE will still be summed and sent to the Sub Out. Hooked it all up, got ready for some serious bass....and.....and....nothing....I can barely even hear the sub being run from the Sub Out (I switched between movies and music, just to be sure) even with my ear next to it. If I set the sub to "Off" in the speaker config, I get lots of bass to my speakers, all set to "Large". But, once I turn the sub feature "On" in Speaker Cofig, I lose all the oomph to my speakers set to Large. It's not supposesd to work like that. As I read the manual, with Bass Management set to "Off", all speakers specified as "Large" are supposed to get ALL the frequencies and the sub Out will still sum all frequencies below 80 and send them to the sub....but it ain't happening like that. I have all of my speakers set to "Large", as they all have either built-i powered subs, or I am running an outboard powered sub, so I can use every bit of frequency that I can get. But when I switch the subwoofer setting to "On" in the Speaker Config", the other speakers are NOT getting full frequency, as I can hear an audible difference in the amount of bass in the room..it goes waaaaay down. The Sub Out is supposed to send all frequencies below 80 to the sub...but the speakers should still get full frequency being set to "Large", right? That's the way I read it in the manual, but it sure ain't working that way. I love to have heart-thumping bass, which is why I bought speakers with built-in powered subs and why I bought 3 extra external powered subs. I now have two powered external subs that are useless cuz I can't get them a good signal...HEEEELLLLLP! What am I doing wrong??

Try something: download a frequency test disc (my Devious Tiny Disc will work if you can't find anything better) and try playing it with and without the sub on. With the front speakers set to "large" you should get response from your front speakers (or their subs) from the start of the disc to the end, with the sub connected to the 950's sub output dormant the entire time. Then switch the fronts to small, pick a crossover point (80Hz would do fine), and try it again. In that arrangement, the 950's sub should output the signal from the start up to near 80Hz, when it will start to taper off and the front speaker pick up.
This is not correct: with all speakers "large", the sub should only get a signal when playing a 5.1 source (at which point it will get the .1 channel only).

One other question: have you calibrated the system since adding the sub connected to the 950? If not, you may have a level issue of some sort going on...

Well, there isn't anything 'wrong' with the system, it's just not satisfying me. Since I am using all Definitive Technology speakers, the three across the front have buit-in powered subs, but am running them with the speaker wire only (leaving the LFE input out of the equation), thereby letting the speaker's internal crossover send signal to appropriate drivers...but when I have the sub (LFE Out) in "Speaker Configuration" set to "Subwoofer On", playing a 5.1 source, and leaving the sub actually turned off, so I just hear my three across the front (I turn off my surround amp, too), when I switch between sub "On" and sub "Off" (in "Speaker Config"), I can hear a dramatic difference in the amount of bass in the room...all coming from the three in front. With the sub set to "Off" my three fronts sounds great, but when I turn the sub "On", I can hear huge reduction in bass. Now, when I tun the actual outboard powered sub connected to the LFE Out on and do the same thing, switching between "Off" and "On" in "Config", I can still hear a major difference...even though the LFE sub is on and producing sound, it's just not nearly as much as switching it to "Off" in "Config". Does this make sense?

I have calibrated the system using the test tones and an SPL meter, configured speakers for appropriate distances away from listening area (which ain't much in my small room...10 feet from the front and center and 3 feet from the surrounds for the listening position)...so, instead of 5.1, what is supposed to happen if I am listening to a stereo recording in "5 Surround"? Wouldn't the LFE sub be used for the lows and my 3 across the front and the rears set as "Large" be crossed, or would they be getting full range?

Here's what I want, maybe you can tell me the best way to get it:
I want the three across the front to get full range, to utilize their built-in, powered subs, I want the rears to get full range, as well, as I am using a Powered sub speaker level in and out to the speakers...I am adding another set of BP2X's for Side Surround, again run thru a powered sub, speaker level in and out and I want to have one more powered sub running and I thought the LFE (Sub)Line Level Out would be the best option...but, since the others aren't getting 'full-range' when I have the sub set to "On" in "Speaker Config", should I just get RCA "Y" connectors and run the stand alone sub that WAS connected to LFE, should I connect from the Mains? (I mean between Outlaw and Main amp?). I will be listening to music about 40%, PS3 games 10%, TV 40% and movies 10%, so I will be switching between DTS/Dolby Digital/etc.and 5 (or soon, 7) Stereo quite a lot. Keep in mind, I would like to get the best 'heart-pounding', deep, clear bass that I can with what I've got....as of this minute, I have 2 powered subs that are just sitting there not being used...when my side surrounds get here next week, I'll put one of those subs into use with the sides...but what should I do with the extra sub, since I get so much more 'oomph' out of my system leaving the sub set to "Off" in Speaker Config?

Am I a pain n the a**, or what, Gonk?

It depends on what source is being played at the time. If it's a 5.1 source, it makes some sense: the LFE track would be redirected to the mains with the sub off. If it's a 2.0 source, that's a little odd.
If you have a stereo recording playing with large speakers, the LFE sub will get nothing - because your speakers are set to "large" and thus don't need a sub to assist them. Keep in mind that with large speakers, the LFE sub will only get a signal if a x.1 source is playing.

Here's one thought... set the fronts and center to "small", use a splitter to divide the subwoofer output four ways and run it to the LFE sub and all three front subs.

That still leaves the other subs up in the air, as I don't think you can set the surrounds to large when you have small fronts (could be wrong there). The issue there, however, is that you are not likely to get meaningful bass sent to the surrounds when using 5/7 Stereo - other sources simply don't typically put deep pass in those channels because so few systems reach much below 80Hz in the surrounds.

One other issue - both your Polk PSW10's and your Velodyne CHT8 roll off around 35Hz - which is just a few Hz lower than my old Paradigm towers reached without a powered sub. The subs in your DefTech towers actually go deeper, although I wonder about the reality of DefTech's specs (I'd like to know how many dB down they are at 15Hz, as I doubt it's just -3dB or so). Those three little subs will not get the "best 'heart-pounding', deep, clear bass" that you might be looking for. That reinforces my thought about hooking the DefTech subs up to the 950's subwoofer output. Certainly I'd lean toward going with small rears and let the 950 steer low frequency elsewhere rather than hook the Polks or Velodyne up via speaker cable.

Thanks for your input...I'll letcha know the results when I have 'em!

:^)

OK, Gonk, here's the latest...I have relocated the Velodyne sub to my bedroom system, so I only have the 3 built-in, powered subs in my 3 front DefTech's, set to "Large", and for my side surrounds, I have speaker wire running into one Polk PSW10, then out to a pair of DefTech BP2X. For rear surrounds, I have another Polk PSW10 going speaker-level In and again, Out to BP2X's in the rear. In 7 Stereo, I can really rock....In DTS/Dolby for movies, it seems to be doing the trick, with the proper bass from each channel as appropriate....here's the new issue....I'm gonna pick up a DefTech Supercube Reference...I still have nothing hooked up to the LFE Out, due to better sound running all my speakers "Large"...how in the hell am I gonna integrate the SC Reference?? If I use the LFE Out, it's only going to be working when there is a x.1 source, right? I want it to get signal all the time, regardless of the input source...can I run it from the "Tape Out"? Then it would get every bass signal from whatever source I am playing, right? And the individual speakers, all set to "Large" would also get every signal they deserve, based on what's playing, right? I want the Reference to be active all the time (these things are incredible subs for the money!) and I want my individual speakers to all have full range signals all the time, again, regardless of input source. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by connecting the Reference via LFE Out, that would only enable it to receive a signal when I am playing something with a x.1 source, correct? But, if I use the Tape Out, won't it then get a full range, full bandwidth signal, and it's internal crossover can do it's intended job. What do you think?

First, don't use the tape out. There are several reasons not to even consider it.

Now, on to the other options. Connect the Super Cube to the 950's sub output and set the subwoofer channel to "on" - this will send LFE channel data (the ".1" in "5.1") to the sub.

I'm going to make one other recommendation, although you may not like it: set the side and back surrounds to "small." If you leave the two Polk subs back there, use either a 40Hz or 60Hz crossover point. I suggest this because the rated low frequency extension for those two is only 35Hz. When you use the 7 Stereo mode, you may at times steer audio below that 35Hz point into the surround channels. It's less likely to happen with 5.1 mixes, but even then it is possible.

I'll offer a short list.

• The tape output is a purely analog device (similar to the second zone), so it only works with an analog stereo input. Any digital audio inputs will be unavailable. That means that when you're using any source connected with a digital audio cable, the tape output is effectively dead.
• The tape output is line level all the time, so volume level (with those analog sources that work at all) will be nonexistent. Thus, no way to properly calibrate and integrate the sub into the system.

These don't include the simple fact that the 950 is a product of the 21st century, with bass management capabilities that allow us to integrate a subwoofer without having to resort to this degree of "creativity."
That's right - but that's what happens when you tell the processor that all of your channels are "large." The processor trusts that you don't need the sub in those cases. Our goal is to reproduce sound in as accurate and balanced a manner as possible, which doesn't necessarily mean that every single driver in the system is active all the time.

Of course, there's also the next part of our discussion, which can change things somewhat (particularly for 7 Stereo)...
First, the "how." On the SPEAKER CONFIG page, just set "SURR" to "Small" and select either 40 or 60 for the "SURR XOVER."

Once you do this, the 950 will send a signal to the surrounds (side and back) that roughly starts at the crossover point and goes up from there (I say roughly because the crossover has a curve, it's not a "brick wall") while the signal below that crossover point goes to the sub. And this means that when listening to music in 7 Stereo mode, any material that dips low enough to cross that crossover point would find its way to the subwoofer output. And when choosing between 40Hz or 60Hz for the crossover, I'd lean toward 60Hz. That way, the Polks will be operating in a range they're really comfortable with rather than riding right on the edge of the point where they start trailing off naturally.

If you don't do this (which is what I was concerned about, and the reason I mentioned the possibility of steering audio below 35Hz to the surrounds in 7 Stereo mode), the surrounds and their Polk subs will get a signal that can at times go all the way down to 20Hz or below. The Polks simply can't handle that. That's why I am suggesting using a "small" setting for them.

All good answers...thanks for taking the time...I'l post again once my SuperCube is in my house...may be a while, as they ain't cheap! Haha!

Since you haven't made the purchase yet, is there a specific reason you're going with the SuperCube? I know they are small, which can be a big help (no pun intended) in placement when dealing with small or crowded rooms, but there are a lot of other subwoofer options out there that could be less expensive and yield comparable performance.

I was also considering the Earthquake SuperNova MKIV-12,which I have found NIB on eBay for only $499, plus shipping....the reviews on that seem to make me lean in that direction, just based on SPL at various frequencies and the cost...a thousand bucks NOT spent on a sub leaves me more to play with my "Upgraditis" is other ares!

Gonk, do you have any recommendations for a sub that would go well with my set-up?

There are a ton of good sub options out there these days, but a sub with a lot of low-frequency extension (which appears to be what you are looking for in this new sub) is either going to come in a large cabinet or in a smaller cabinet at a (potentially much) higher price. Both the SuperCube and the SuperNova tend to land in the latter category. The price on that Supernova is pretty impressive (about 50% of the list price, according to Earthquake's site), although I don't know what warranty might be offered with it.

I tend to look toward companies like Outlaw, HSU Research (who was involved in the Outlaw subs), or AV123 for good subwoofers at a good value. For example that borrows from our forum host company's product line, a LFM-1 EX that costs $600 will get down to 22Hz, which is on par with the 23Hz extension of the MKIV-12, and can be configured for maximum extension mode (plugging one port) to reach down to 16Hz. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison in a lot of ways (different enclosure designs, for example), but it gives you some idea of what's available. Heck, the LFM-1 Plus (with a $500 price tag) will do down to 18Hz when in max extension mode.

Some of the key factors in picking a sub are room size, available space, listening goals (how much bass do you need), and budget. If the room size is medium to large (say 3000 to 4000 cubic feet) and you have the room for a sub the size of an LFM-1 or similar ported design, you can get something that will go to or below 20Hz without having to pay as much as you would for a small sub like the SuperCube or Supernova.

Factors considered so far include price, SPL output, extension, cabinet size ... anyone thinking about which might have lower acoustic distortion at various output levels? It's not a spec most manufacturers post for any loudspeaker.

That is an excellent point - like any speaker, a sub is more than the sum of its cataloged specs.

Well, this sub is going to be connected to my Outlaw 950's LFE Out...my 3 fronts (DefTech BP7002 and CLR2500) all contain built-in powered subs, and I am running them "Large" in the Outlaw. The Side Surrounds (also set to "Large") are going Speaker Level In to the Polk PSW110 and Out to a pair of DefTech BP2X'...for Rear Surrounds , same thing, set to "Large", in via Speaker Level In on a Polk PSW110, and Speaker Level Out, to BP2X'. It rocks pretty good in 7 Stereo and for Movies I'm rather impressed with the output with my current configuration...but I just bet adding a SuperCube Reference to the LFE Out will make a world of difference while watching movies...I'm just wondering what I'll give up in the 7 Stereo mode....

What physical size sub would quality as "too big" for your space? Both of the subs you've been looking at are on the smaller end of the scale. Also, what do you want from the sub as far as bass response and how large is the room? There are an assortment of folks around here who could probably offer some useful first-hand experience about different subs with that kind of information.

Physically, I don't think there IS such a thing as 'too big', as long as it fits fashionably...but the diminutive size of the SuperCube Ref is a size I would like to stay close to...even an SVS tube would do the trick...the room is 20 X 12, with 10' vaulted ceiling and open on one side to the kitchen, with a doorwall on the other side...I have no WAF to worry about, so it's all about performance...bang for the buck, ya know? Since I have all DefTech's now, I thought the Reference would be what most 'matches' my set-up...but if I could afford it, I'd go with a Trinity....I don't think there is such a thing as 'too much' bass...as long as it's crisp, clean, not boomy, and the higher the SPL the better. If I broke some windows in the process of finding out how high I should turn it up, that'd be OK with me. My local guy will sell me a NIB SuperCube Reference for $1,600 out the door...but if I can get the same performance for less, I'm all for that! What might you suggest?

I don't see a need to match subs to other speakers usually, unless you are trying to match the finishes (as with veneered speakers, for example).

Having owned the smallest SVS tube, it's anything but diminuitive - my wife far preferred the LFM-1 to the 25-31PCi for appearance because of this, even though the LFM-1 takes a little more floor space. If something that takes up as much as 24"x24" of floor space is an option worth considering, I'd say that there are a lot of good options out there.

Size be damned...I'm more interested in performance the higher the SPL at the lower the frequency, the better....suggestions? Ideally, I'd like to test listen, but given my location, I have to trust in others, such as yourself....

There are many good subs out there, most of which I have little or no experience with, but I can toss out a few models or manufacturers that I see come up fairly regularly. On the internet-direct side of things, you have the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, HSU Research VTF-2 or VTF-3, AV123's MFW-15 (which has experienced back-order issues until very recently), and an assortment of offerings from SVS. I've also seen a lot of talk about the JL Audio Fathom units lately.

I've probably left out several good subs for each one I've listed above, but it may help give you some ideas. Others here can probably offer some other ideas - might even be useful to skim through posts in the "Your System Saloon" area to see what others are using.

I broke down and ordered the DefTech SuperCube Reference....AV123, Outlaw Audio, etc. are just making it too difficult to get cuz of shipping, but I found my local dealer has a store on St. Martin that is authorized DefTech dealer (I bought my 3 fronts from them), so I went ahead and ordered the Reference....got it for $1,500 delivered, when it retails for $1,899 without delivery, which is not bad, especially being way out here in the Caribbean. The Ref is supposed to be equivalent in output to FOUR SuperCube 1's....along with the built in subs and amps in my mains and Center channel, and the two Polk PSW10 that I am using for the low end on my side and rear surrounds, I think the Reference is going to round it out nicely...Gee, does that mean I'll be running a 7.6???

OK...now for a new problem....the new sub is not here yet, but I was playing with some Woon Bass Shakers and I found that there is NO output from my "Sub Out" RCA...I didn't select a X.1 Source yet, as it was late, but the "Auto On" feature of the amp I was going to use signaled me to the problem. When I turned the amp 'On', the light was Yellow...then, after 5 or ten minutes, it turned to Red, even tho I was still playing music from my PS3...checked all connections, and everything is hooked up properly...double-checked my 950's setting to be sure Sub is "On", all speakers set to "Large" (each channel has a powered sub, speaker level in, to handle the lows), with all X-overs at 40Hz)...but still no output? What am I missing here?

If you have a source without a .1 track and all of the speakers are set to large, you will not get a signal at the subwoofer output. The 950 is doing exactly what you ask of it. You have two options:

1) Play an x.1 source with the subwoofer on. This will give the bass shakers a signal. Drawback: until the sub arrives, you will feel but not hear LFE tracks.

2) Set some speakers to "small" so the bass shakers get a signal. The Polk and Velodyne subs we discussed earlier would actually be well served by a 40Hz crossover, although the surrounds wouldn't generate much below 40Hz for the bass shaker in most cases anyway. I assume you don't want to do that for your fronts. You still won't hear whatever gets steered to the bass shakers until the sub gets connected to the LFE.

Marty, what made Outlaw difficult to ship to the USVI? I have an LFM1-EX and although it has a pretty big footprint in my living room it has awesome response. I got it mostly for movies because my room is a little difficult for one sub to cover. It must be verrry difficult to get stuff shipped to the USVI if you are still waiting since the end of September. For $1500 you could get 2 LFM1-EX and really shake things up. I'll bet you could have them by the end of next week.

Doesn't the manual state that the "Sub Out" will handle all frequencies under the selected X-crossover point, but if the speakers ar set to "Large" they will still receive full bandwidth??

And the other sub-woofer purchase options want to ship via UPS or FedEx and both of those companies charge "International" rates to the United States Virgin Islands, while USPS charges "Domestic"..I mean, sheesh! We ARE the U.S.! But we get rooked again!

Page 34, last paragraph: "If the switch (it's talking about the Bass Management toggle switch on the back panel)is set in the Down position, no crossover filtering occurs, providing full bandwidth signal, including all bass information, to the speakers. However, all information below 80Hz is still summed and sent to the subwoofer output."

Gonk...are you saying that I can't listen to music with a sub if I don't have 'small' speakers? I mean, every channel I have has a powered sub connected to it...I don't have anything in my "Sub Out" yet...

The sub out will handle all frequencies below the crossover point if a speaker is set to "small" - as we've talked about before, when the speaker is set to large, the 950 assumes you don't want a signal being steered to the sub because your large speaker is handling the full frequency range.

There is one very specific exception to this...
And that is the exception. The bass management toggle only relates to the six-channel analog input. The Model 950 includes analog bass management for that input, since it does not get routed through the DSP. The high-pass crossover is user-selectable ("on" means nothing below 80Hz goes to the speakers and "off" means they get everything), but the accompanying low-pass crossover is always enabled (the sub always gets the sub signal plus a summed signal of <80Hz data from all full-range speakers). That only applies to the six-channel analog input.
I am saying that you can't listen to music and get a signal to a subwoofer that is connected to the 950's sub output unless you have speakers set to "small."

Marty, sorry
I looked up the FEDEX rates for an 90 pound item and I am shocked at the rate. Its almost as much as the sub itself costs. What does the USPS charge and is there someone you could have it shipped to here and then have them send it via USPS. Outlaw has free shipping right now for the subs to anyplace in the states.

OK, Gonk, I guess that answers my question...I need to set some speakers to 'Small'...dammit.

Yeah, the shipping for both UPS and FedEx usually amount to what the item costs to buy...or more!! It' stupid, we ARE the United States, but we get charged outrageous 'International' rates...USPS is reasonable...but they limit the weight to 80lbs...there's definitely a price for paradise! I mean, sure, I could have it shipped to someone in the States, then have them USPS Priority to here...but then it's back to the amount that I would pay for the DefTech Reference...it's tuff to build a high-quality home theater here!!

I set my side surrounds to 'small', and I sometimes get a signal thru the Sub Out...but not always. Is there ANY way to make the .1 channel active all the time?? I mean, the difference from listening to music and movies is freaking dramatic in the low end, due to no 'source' for the .1 on CD's...

That makes sense - the sub only gets a signal if there's a .1 track or bass in the surround channels low enough to drop below the crossover point.
The difference between movies and music is largely a matter of how they're mixed - movies have lots of bottom end for effect, whereas very few musical instruments and no human voices get that deep so you don't often get comparable bass from music. If you want comparable low end slam from music, you are going to have to find some music that specifically contains that sort of information (pipe organs are a classic example of this). Of course, now you are shaping your listening habits to a rather arbitrary goal of the inclusion of specific frequency bands.

Another way to look at it: if you want a signal of some sort going to every channel in your system (all five or seven speakers plus any subwoofer(s) or bass shaker(s) you might also have) all of the time, you are going to have a hard time achieving that. There is a lot of source material out there that is not going to cooperate. The electronics we use are (at least in most cases) designed to be as faithful to the source material as possible, even if that leaves some speakers idle at times. It's similar for video, where faithfulness to the sources sometimes mean pillarboxing, letterboxing, or even black and white on fancy HDTV's.

Well, that explains it! Thanks, again, Gonk! You ever want to visit the Virgin Islands, let me know and I'll help to make it much cheaper!!