21' interconnects too long for 950?

Hi,
I've had to rearrange my listening room some and now have to use 21-foot interconnects to make the connection btwn my 950 and my amps.

Is the output voltage of the 950 strong enough to handle a run of this lenght w/ minimal signal loss/distortion? I will have the cables isolated from other elements by running it through a conduit of pipe-insulation.

It would take significant effort to relocate the amps in order to accomodate longer speaker cable runs but shorter IC runs.

What do you guys think?

I'm probably not the best one to respond because I don't even hear a difference between different interconnects!

But since you asked...

I doubt that 21 feet is noticeably different than 6 feet. Especially since you intend to shield the run.

That would have been my only concern. If it comes down to a choice between longer low level cable or longer speaker wire, I'd go for the longer speaker wire since the low level stuff is rumoured to stand a better chance of latching on to stray signals, hum, etc.

(And for the record, I don't hear a difference between speaker cables either.)

Jeff Mackwood

21 feet is not too long, and I would recommend you construct these interconnects, which I have run for 50 feet without problems.

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000069.html

Good news, thanks guys. Yeah, ideally, I'd rather use longer speaker cable, but like I said, it's not very practical in my particular situation.

Soundhound, thanks for the DIY link, those are the best instructions/photos I've seen yet.

I'll give it a try.

Curiously, most of the DIY stuff I've seen requires the purchase of crimping tools and equipment. Is there any payoff btwn crimping the connections and soldering them?

Soldering is preferrable since the connection is 100% bonded between the wire and the plug. Crimping is fine IF you have a professional grade crimping tool and the experience to use it correctly. Still, if I were going into space and had the choice of soldered or crimped connections in my spacecraft, I'd opt for solder!

In a high vibratory environment, such as a spacecraft, or any aircraft, crimping would be preferred. When soldering, the junction between the now solid wire, and the connector pin would create a point of high stress concentration. This would multiply the chances of the wire breaking at that juncture. This could create any number of nasty situations, that would abruptly end your flight, and ruin your afternoon.

There's an understatement!

Now that I think about it, I can't come up with any wire joints in an automobile that are soldered. Everything is a crimp connector. Presumably for the same reason Oil Can cited. Interesting!

That said, since the vibration in my living room is pretty limited, I soldered my Neutriks onto my twisted pair cabling for RCA interconnects, for the reasons soundhound cited. Well, not the blasting into space reason, but the positive connection one

-Joe


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Actually, crimp connectors are used in automobiles and other appliances for speed of assembly, not reliability. The idea that a soldered connection is not as reliable as a crimped one is false. When there are vibration issues, enough slack is given to wiring looms to avoid the problem of fatigue. A crimped connection is just as succeptable to this kind of stress as a soldered one.

While crimped connections can be very secure, soldering is the only way to achieve 100% connection between two electrical components. Crimping is simply faster for assembly line use, while soldering is very labor intensive.

The only time I would advocate crimp over solder would be in a case where the soldered connections would not maintain the proper impedance for important video signals. There are a few solder type connections that do, and many that don’t. There are some crimp type connections that do maintain the correct impedance, and some that don’t. Your choice of cable for video may be different than for audio as well, although some choices of excellent video cable also are great for audio too. I've been happily using highly recommended Belden 1694A cable and Canare connectors.

You are quite right on this count. Crimping BNC connectors are used to maintain 75 ohm integrity, and "F" connectors for the same reason. For audio use however, there is not much of an argument for crimp style connections since the signals are not as impedance dependent. The crimping tools a consumer is likely to buy at a RadioShack store are nowhere near good enough in my opinon, and not as good as a soldered connection.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited October 28, 2003).]

What about soldering 12 gage speaker cable to spade and banana plug? Will it be better than crimping?

Soldering to spade connectors is better than crimping, but if your banannas have a compression screw type lug, you obviously can't solder these. You would need a large soldering iron to do it, like the "gun" types with a 100 watt element. Plus, obviously, you would need to have above average soldering skills.


The solder joint would need to be cleaned of flux with alcohol, as this flux can get onto the spade connector and limit contact with the spekaer terminal. It is a good idea to clean _all_ solder connections. I use Xylene to do this, but it is pretty nasty stuff if you're not careful.


[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited October 29, 2003).]

While I agree that in automotive, and appliance production crimped connections are used for speed, and ease of assembly. This is not the case in aircraft. Neither speed or ease of assembly is considered in the aircraft industry. Reliability is paramount. The possibility of wires breaking when using soldered connections is very real. This is the reason that stranded wire is used rather than solid core wire in aircraft wiring harnesses.
There are some exceptions, but by and large this is true in all aircraft. Granted, the use of stress relief devices, loops, and slack in the design of wiring may partially mitigate wire breakage. These design elements are in use in aircraft, but you will find very few soldered connections in aircraft wiring harnesses. The design of printed circuit boards is another deal altogether. Mil-spec boards use soldered connections, but after assembly the boards are dipped in epoxy to help support, and secure the electrical components to the board. Just to put this in perspective I have been a licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic since 1973. This does not mean I am completely correct, or the ultimate authority on this subject, but I have been at this for some time, and I have seen very few soldered connections in aircraft wiring for the reasons I have stated. Now, for the statement about things ruining your afternoon. This comes from my time as a UH-1 Crew Chief in RVN. Just a little gallows humor for those who were there.

The only reason I can see for using crimped connectors on aircraft would be the tendency of solder to wick up the stranded wires, which would stiffen them, making them easier to break under vibration. Other than that, wire doesn't know whether it is held in place by a crimp or solder, and a crimp connection would be succeptable to the same stresses as a soldered one if it weren't for the wicking effect of solder.

In audio use, I have had dozens of crimped connections become intermittent over the years, yet not one soldered connection has ever given me one bit of problem, even ones I made in the 1960s. The metal in a crimp connection can bend both ways, and loosen it's tension over time, expecially if done with the low quality crimp tools available to most consumers in hardware stores or places like RadioShack. Professional crimping tools are very expensive, but make as good a crimp connection as is possible.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited October 29, 2003).]

"The only reason I can see for using crimped connectors on aircraft would be the tendency of solder to wick up the stranded wires, which would stiffen them, making them easier to break under vibration."

Soundhound, You have hit the nail right on the head. That is the reason that crimped connections are used rather that soldered connections.

I am using 7 meter interconnects (app. 22.75') to connect to the power amp for my side/rear speakers. I am not having any problems and do not notice a difference with the front amp (3 meters) and center (1 meter). All are the same design interconnects.

As to the crimp vs. solder, I have used both in building speaker cables but have only soldered in interconnects. I would have to say I cannot hear a difference in the cables I crimped (with correct tool) and the silver solder ones. No problems or concerns with either. I still think I would prefer to solder interconnects.

[This message has been edited by OFCCM (edited October 30, 2003).]