Is PLIIx really that much better? With the release of the 990, I've seen a lot of discussion about it and people upgrading just to get it, etc. I've not heard it but am curious as to what makes it so much better from those who have. I would think that with DTS and all of the multiple other existing surround formats, what's one more? But again, I've not heard it. What makes it so much better? Or is it?

I haven't had a chance to really give it a try yet to see how it compares to the 6.1 formats like Dolby EX, DTS ES, the 950's Cirrus Extra Surround (CES), or even DTS NEO:6, but I am curious. I'd also be curious to hear from a Lexicon owner (or anyone with a higher-end HK unit) who has been able to compare it to Lexicon's Logic7. Several people in this forum who have used it have clearly preferred it over Dolby EX, DTS ES, and CES. Maybe I'll get a chance to try out a Model 990 soon and form my own opinion.

Just to make sure we are all on the same page, Pro Logic IIx is a cousin of Pro Logic II. Where PLII allows you to generate true 5.1 channel surround from a stereo source, Pro Logic IIx takes 5.1 channel sources and creates stereo surround back channels. Pro Logic IIx can be applied to any 5.1 source - including Dolby 5.1 and DTS 5.1 sources. Model 950 users might directly equate Pro Logic IIx to an advanced version of the 950's CES, both in how it functions (taking CES's mono surround back signal and turn it into left and right stereo signals) and when it can be used (both can be applied to any 5.1 source passing through the digital domain - obviously, they can't be used with a multichannel analog input).

Would I upgrade just to get Pro Logic IIx? Personally, I wouldn't, but it might be a contributing factor in an upgrade if there were other compelling reasons to do so.

PLIIx is pretty similar to PLII sound wise and unless you are sitting between the 1st and 2nd row of surrounds it is virtually indistinguishable...

To my ears PLIIx is a major stepup from PLII. Of course you have to have a 7.1 speaker system to use PLIIx and that probably makes up part of the difference. I recently made a comparasion of 950 CES vs PLIIx and again to my ears, PLIIx is the winner. I would not use PLIIx as my only reason to upgrade, however I will upgrade to the 990 to get PLIIx, DVI switching, Phono and Auto setup.

PLIIx an eXtension (not improvement) on PLII. They both use the same processing algorithms, so there's no difference in the quality of the surround processing itself.

The primary difference is in the functionality. PLII only works on 2-channel material and outputs up to 5 channels. PLIIx works on 2-channel and 5.1-channel material, converting both to 6 or 7 outputs (depending on number of speakers used).

I think there are a couple of reasons that many people seem to be liking PLIIx. Many are going from from a 5.1-speaker set-up to 7.1 and noticing the improvement. This is also the first time many have heard good quality 7-channel processing. This could lead some to believe that PLIIx is "that much better" than PLII, when really other factors are contributing to the improvements they're hearing.

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PLIIx is pretty similar to PLII sound wise and unless you are sitting between the 1st and 2nd row of surrounds it is virtually indistinguishable...

I have to strongly disagree. I found PLIIx to be a big improvement over EX, Cirrus and certainly PLII. The soundfield is much more enveloping and fluid. For the first time I actually feel as though I am at the theater with PLIIx in my set up.

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I think there are a couple of reasons that many people seem to be liking PLIIx. Many are going from from a 5.1-speaker set-up to 7.1 and noticing the improvement. This is also the first time many have heard good quality 7-channel processing. This could lead some to believe that PLIIx is "that much better" than PLII, when really other factors are contributing to the improvements they're hearing.

I had a 7.1 channel set up with the 950 and now I also have it again with my Sherwood P-965 with PLIIx. Again, big difference and I do not think that the 950 fails to provide good quality 7-channel processing.

As I say, I haven't had a chance to compare PLIIx to EX or CES - the extra separation of discrete left and right signals may yield some clear benefits. Hopefully I'll be able to get a 990 into my system at some point to get some first-hand experience with it. PLII, however, cannot be compared to PLIIx in this context. As Sanjay pointed out, PLIIx is an extension of Pro Logic II - Pro Logic II cannot produce any signal for the surround back speakers. That's why the 950 has Cirrus Extra Surround - it provided the same sort of surround back capability as Dolby EX and DTS ES for two-channel sources that were expanded to 5.1 by PLII. (It also works well for Dolby 5.1 and DTS 5.1 sources, but that's beside the point. ) Pro Logic IIx takes Pro Logic II and adds the ability to use the same basic technology to give you two more channels. The only real differences between the two is how many channels are generated.

What "good quality 7-channel processing" would that be?

With 5.1-channel sources, you could choose EX/ES decoding or CES processing. But those resulted in 6.1 channels, not 7.1 (and CES didn't really do a good job of cancelling rear speaker information from the side speakers).

With 2-channel sources, the situation was no better; i.e., you still ended up with 6 channels of output. You could either use DTS Neo:6 or PLII+CES, which cascaded processing on top of processing (a matrix surround-back channel was being extracted from a pair of surround channels that were matrix derived themselves).

So unless you were using LOGIC7 previously, your Sherwood P-965 does indeed represent the first time you are using 7.1-channel processing (good quality or otherwise).

Best,
Sanjay

you people are going to drive yourselves nuts!(i already am)
i've been dealing with 5.1 for about a year now,few months ago gonk helped me with dts.i'm cool,could go 6.1 if i chose to,but 7.1???
i'd have to knock down walls,pick up the room,rotate 90 degrees,add another sub(7.2?),990,amps,etc...
i'm just REAL glad i don't do that many movies,how could i ever finish the truck system?

having to actually go to work to support the habits(and making time to build) really takes away from the time to enjoy the habits!

Oh Well ..seven speakers..you know I thought 7.1 processing.My bad But it still sounds better! You are right Painttoad we are going crazy with this .