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#89494 - 02/18/12 11:34 PM Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1
happy2 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 21
Loc: NH
I'm just getting into separates, moving up from a Yamaha receiver to a Emotiva MPS-2 amp & had been on the list for the 997/998 to go along with it. My room has a lot of issues & it looks like Trinnov is the best solution, but Outlaw is having a hard time getting the 978 out, let alone the 998. Emotiva's TacT looks more promising than Audyssey.
Computer based high bit rate digital looks like the future for high end audio. Can music be streamed from your computer to the 978's DACs without using a seperate DAC like the HRT Music Streamer II? It looks like the XMC1 will offer streaming capability. Just wondering how important it is to have this built into the pre/pro?

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#89496 - 02/19/12 09:34 AM Re: Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1 [Re: happy2]
renov8r Offline
Desperado

Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 336
Loc: Illinois
The 978 features have included the ability to "feed" digital audio files to the onboard DAC from a computer via USB, such capability has existed in current Outlaw offerings. Of course the feature list and specific implementation has been "subject to change" forever...

I have not seen enough reviews to judge the effectiveness of TACT vs XT32, though I do not beleive either of them has the advanced capabilities of Trinnov when it comes to making adjustments to delay & phase to electronically "re-orient" the speakers into a virtual perfect placement...


I'm sure that both Emotiva and Outlaw are very aware of the comparisions that will be drawn between both of their products and the various design trade-offs that were made enroute. It ought to make some for interesting reviews when both are in the marketplace.

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#89498 - 02/19/12 12:33 PM Re: Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1 [Re: renov8r]
73Bruin Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 506
Loc: Torrance, CA USA
renov8r: Your statement implies that the USB feed will go to the unspecified ESS Sabre DAC that is promised to be in the 978. This is by no means certain. The RR2150 has a USB chip that in addition to providing all of the USB handholding also does the conversion to analog. It is quite possible that same chip could be used in the 978.

One of my frustrations with the Outlaw statements about the 978 is that a lot of information about the quality of the chips used is not stated. For example there are 4 distinct lines of ESS DAC chips; I have seen some statements that imply it would be the Ultra chip and not the two chip reference series used in the Oppo BDP-95, but there is no official mention of this on the product page. Similarly the product page mentions Anchor Bay scaling but leaves out all mention of which chip set will be used. Considering that ABT was purchased by Silicon Image just over a year ago, I can see this being somewhat uncertain, but the product page only mentions video scaling and makes no mention of the other video processing capabilites that were offered by what are now "obsolete" ABT chips
_________________________
Living Room 24x18 open 1/2 flight up to a raised dining room/hall 24x12
Outlaw 976 pre-pro running 5.1 system
Outlaw 750 for Artison Masterpiece LCR and 2 NHT SuperZeros rears
Velodyne Servo FX-1200
LG OLED65C8PUA via HDMI2 to/from 976 HDMI ARC
Roku Ultra
Samsung BD-D5500 BluRay
Amazon FireStick 4K to 976 Aux HDMI input for Amazon Music Ultra

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#89499 - 02/19/12 01:15 PM Re: Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1 [Re: renov8r]
Ritz2 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: renov8r
The 978 features have included the ability to "feed" digital audio files to the onboard DAC from a computer via USB, such capability has existed in current Outlaw offerings. Of course the feature list and specific implementation has been "subject to change" forever...

I have not seen enough reviews to judge the effectiveness of TACT vs XT32, though I do not beleive either of them has the advanced capabilities of Trinnov when it comes to making adjustments to delay & phase to electronically "re-orient" the speakers into a virtual perfect placement...


I'm sure that both Emotiva and Outlaw are very aware of the comparisions that will be drawn between both of their products and the various design trade-offs that were made enroute. It ought to make some for interesting reviews when both are in the marketplace.


Trinnov is rather irrelevant since the Outlaw unit isn't going to have it and the only equipment with Trinnov priced for consumer wallets was the Sherwood disaster that Outlaw almost released under its own brand. Perhaps our new Outlaw employee, Jeff Hipps, can comment since he was front and center (at Sherwood) during that debacle? smile

I haven't heard the Audyssey XT32 system, but I HAVE heard TACT gear. It simply needs to be heard to be believed. Sadly, Tact and Lyngdorf equipment is out of the budget of many home theater enthusiasts so this Emotiva processor has the potential to be a rock star. The jury is out on whether they're able to execute on this based on their last UMC-1 effort.

As for your claims about Outlaw pre's being able to accept input from the USB for their onboard DAC, I think the jury is still out on that one. They haven't been particularly forthcoming on (a) the versions of various crucial hardware components (which someone else already mentioned) and (b)the exact functionality that they plan to offer. So I hope you'll pardon my skepticism until such time as there is someone not under NDA who can comment on both of those points.

Best,



Edited by Ritz2 (02/19/12 01:20 PM)
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#89511 - 02/19/12 05:34 PM Re: Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1 [Re: Ritz2]
renov8r Offline
Desperado

Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 336
Loc: Illinois
Points conceded.

The feature list really ought to be updated if in fact the product is moving closer to final production.

I suspect the decision about when to release more up-to-date details is somewhat difficult as whatever Outlaw definitely does not have will make it a slam dunk for the competition to "sell against" regardless of when their offerings might be available...

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#89515 - 02/19/12 10:26 PM Re: Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1 [Re: renov8r]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
Details, details, all we want are details.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#89533 - 02/21/12 02:51 PM Re: Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1 [Re: XenonMan]
Hank Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/30/01
Posts: 348
Loc: Austin, Texas, USA
I'd say that HDMI is giving Outlaw absolute fits!

Here's' an AVS Forum post regarding HDMI:
"It's a flawed technology with no real basis for existence other than HDCP. Nuff said"

And another:
"Yeah, who ever said HDMI was made for consumers? Ha ha, no way, it was made for content owners. THAT's what it's all about.
But jeez, couldn't they test out handshake problems before rolling out such a technology? Then again, this is the industry that:
- Didn't think to fit a couple dozen characters of artist, album, and song name within 600+ MB of Compact Disc
- Decided the PLAY button shouldn't make DVDs play, rather you must use ENTER
and on and on and on and on..."
_________________________
"Do you expect me to talk?"
"No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!"

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#89536 - 02/21/12 05:25 PM Re: Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1 [Re: Hank]
happy2 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 21
Loc: NH
It's too late for the 978, but it would be nice if Outlaw had a Mac/Intel Thunderbolt connection in addition to HDMI.

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#89538 - 02/22/12 10:25 AM Re: Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1 [Re: happy2]
bwallen77 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 70
Loc: Akron, Ohio
I'm not so sure it's too late. It just depends what your looking for. I for one, don't care about all the streaming mumbo jumbo. The new codecs, audyssey, hdmi 1.4, and the best sound around does the trick for me. I wish the timing was better. I am finishing up my home theater project this weekend and unfortunately will be taking my living room rig(990 and 7125) to the theater until the 978 comes out. It will be a pain to be sure, but the promise of the 978 is too enticing.

As far as streaming goes, the quality is never there. Almost, but nothing like popping in a bluray. Maybe some would disagree, but I can stream netflix from my xbox anyways. And I can stream pandora and the like from my bluray player. I don't need to pay for redundancy. So unless there is something I'm missing, the 978 is perfect. The only caveat to all this: if it's not out in the first half of this year, i'm not waiting forever. My living room will be living off of the tv's sound, ugh, until then so I definitely will not wait past June. Oh and Peter, no matter the status, give us an update please. Lots of loyal people around here that want an update. I almost pulled the trigger yesterday on something else and I just couldn't bring myself to do it. i'm sure with an update, I wouldn't have even thought about it.
_________________________
Family room
Outlaw 990/7125
Klipsch RF-25's, Klipsch RC-25, Klipsch RS-25, Klipsch RS-52's

Home theater
990/7125 - Until the 978 is released
Seymour Av xd 120" screen
panasonic pt-ae7000u
3 In cabinet Axiom M80's, 4 Qs8's, In cabinet EP-800 subwoofer

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#89539 - 02/22/12 10:26 AM Re: Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1 [Re: bwallen77]
bwallen77 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 70
Loc: Akron, Ohio
on a side note, I will have 3 axiom m80's across the front stage. will the 7125 be able to drive them well?
_________________________
Family room
Outlaw 990/7125
Klipsch RF-25's, Klipsch RC-25, Klipsch RS-25, Klipsch RS-52's

Home theater
990/7125 - Until the 978 is released
Seymour Av xd 120" screen
panasonic pt-ae7000u
3 In cabinet Axiom M80's, 4 Qs8's, In cabinet EP-800 subwoofer

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