I was not surprised to read the 997 news. I personally thought it died sometime last year but Outlaw was just late in sending out the obit.

My concern is why OA believes it is able or finds it desirable to go it alone this time around. What has changed? Unless that question is substantively answered, the shadow of deja vu will hang in the air. I'm not sure a second major failure would be survivable.

The approach they are using this time is similar to the one they've used for the Model 1050, Model 950, Model 1070/970, and RR2150. It's one that they are experienced with, and I get the impression that it is with a new manufacturing partner (not Eastech and definitely not Inkel). The 997 was almost a logical next step after the solid success they had building the Model 990 on an Inkel (then called Etronics) platform, but success for the 997 hinged on the R-972 arriving successfully. The R-972 was supposed to be ready a couple years ago, and Outlaw had an attractive deal with Inkel that gave Outlaw sole use of the platform for a processor product.

Pure speculation on my part follows!

What has changed :
1)The Outlaw folks have learned a lot about how not to do things. This learning is often more valuable then what you learn when something goes well.
2) The Trinnov folks are going to be very motivated to show that their software is not the problem and may put in that extra effort to get it right this time. They will want to take some of the Audyssey market share and get their software into more products. Big bucks can be made there, a few dollars times lots of licenses is way better than more dollars for far fewer licenses, look at Microsoft.
3)The new manufacturer will be very interested in proving they can get it right. They likely want more market share for building electronics and pulling this off is going to give them credibility (if they need it). They'll make money working with Outlaw but may make far more money if this results in larger market share.

Sorry about the last post

I agree with everything you say here except that all of those things should have already been true.

1) This is not the first time the Outlaws have had serious delays on a product release.
2) You would think Trinnov was already modviated if they wanted to crack the consumer market. I think the pro installers like to keep things the way they are so they can sell their customers something unique.
3) In this economy I would think both old and new manufactures would be motivated. The key is in selecting the one that can deliver on what is promised not just the lowest bidder which is what I expect happened here.

Boy, you didn't even let the ink dry before you replied, gonk. What you said was history-- the tale of a business model that failed. My question could be answered in either of two ways: why didn't they go it alone the first time, OR, why do they think they can this time? I suspect the contract with Sherwood was vaguely written - at least the part forcing OA to wait x days after the Sherwood release. Sounds possible on paper but I'm thinking that no one contemplated the ramifications if the Sherwood release went buggy. My guess is that OA could have taken their share of the circuits and completed the product were it not for the contractual wait. I understood that the Sherwood problems were largely external to the pre/pro functionality.

My sense tells me that the financial hit was huge. The pre/pro is really OA's flagship product with some of the amps perhaps close seconds. Other products seem to be me-toos or coat-tail products such as their speakers and cables. Not that they are not good, but so are the ones made by their many competitors who specialize in these products. I think OA's Annex products were rather out in left field for a high end audio shop and the stream of them seemed to coincide with the sinking fortunes of the 998.

Their current plan of running timed sales on mainstream products I think is indicative of a cash crisis and is irritating as it devalues the equipment that I paid good money for.

In these economic times, even small business mistakes can have heavy consequences. I personally wish OA success and look forward to a new pre/pro.

Well, only Outlaw and Sherwood/Inkel (or whatever that outfit calls itself these days) knows for sure what the terms of their agreement stipulated. If I was a betting man, I'd guess there was a "drop dead" clause in there somewhere that gave Outlaw an "out" if Sherwood didn't meet some specific delivery timeline or quality benchmark by X date. That might also help explain Sherwood's "rush" to get the thing out the door even though there clearly were remaining usability issues.

Whatever the reason, it's now over and it cost Outlaw a lot of lost sales and a hit to their credibility with their existing customer base. A credible processor offering is key to the success of their other lines of re-branded equipment that rely on a processor to be the brains of the home theater system....hence their resale of Onkyo processors in the interim.

If Outlaw was a traditional manufacturing company, I'd say they were sure to fail after such a spectacular flub that dragged out for more than a year. But they seem to be mostly "virtual" and perhaps their fixed operating costs are low enough to survive this current sales slump until they get something else of note into their pipeline. A tough row to hoe, but not impossible.

What I said was history, yes. You asked what has changed and why Outlaw thinks they can succeed with a different partner and a different approach, and I pointed to examples from past projects where they successfully employed an approach that seems similar to the 998 plan.

As for the remains of the R-972, I doubt that they have the option of keeping any board designs - and I doubt there's much desire to do so. They have experience with analog audio, digital audio, analog video, and even digital video switching from past projects that didn't involve Sherwood/Inkel. The only really unique aspect of the R-972 design is the DSP section, and the biggest factor there is probably firmware. If the platform had really compelling value in that regard, the Model 997 probably wouldn't be dead now.


Certainly killing the Model 997 is not helping their bottom line, and the Model 998 development isn't going to be a freebie either. Of course, releasing the Model 997 and having it be a flop wouldn't do them any favors, either.


It could be far worse. The sales are spread out across the product line enough that any given product goes on sale rarely, and the sales aren't hugely dramatic. That means that the sales aren't going to have as big a long-term impact on the prices in the used market, as long as you don't try to sell during a sale. It's not like one company I could name, where speaker products went on sale at regular intervals (every few months, especially near Christmas) and the sale prices were often as much as half of the regular price. In some cases, products were reduced in price so consistently and by so much that the used market prices on speakers that were just a couple or three years old dropped to maybe 25% or less of the original price - which for good quality speakers is unheard of.

The reality is that the economy is still in pretty bad shape, and non-essential consumer products are going to see a dip in sales no matter how good the product line is. That's going to force companies to look for ways to keep bringing in sales.


I agree. The Model 998 looks like it could be an interesting product.

I couldn't agree more.

On another note I always take the wait and see approach, so I'm never a first adopter. I always find electronics, including computers, tend to iron out quarks after several revisions. That being said, I think the 998 will benefit from the success and failure of other units and technologies on the market and Outlaw will deliver a polished product with time tested technologies.

Hi guys! I haven't been by the Saloon in a while. What with having a couple of additions to the family and going single income for a long while, I've just contented myself with keeping up via the newsletter. Nice to see some familiar faces still around the joint <waves at gonk>.

On topic - Yar! The economy is tough on a lot of folks but the "toy makers" are probably having a really rough go as that's usually the first thing that gets cut when the ol' money satchel gets light.

I'm glad to see the Outlaws developing bottom up on the 998. Maybe by the time it comes out, my TV will finally die and we'll have to upgrade to HDTV and I'll have an excuse to upgrade my 1050! That thing is bullet proof, I tell ya. Still sounds as good as it did when the Outlaws first shipped it to me lo those many years ago. I'm jonesin' to pair up a nice pre/pro to my 7125 and the 998 may just fit the bill if I can wrangle it in to my budget!

Lookin' forward to it, Outlaws!