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#64798 - 03/18/07 03:17 AM Center Speaker question
FAUguy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 247
Loc: FL
This doesn't really have anything to do with my 990, but I figured the 990 forum would be the best place to post it.

Last year I got the 990/7125/LFM-1+ combo.
At that time I had two stereo speakers, B&W DM603.
I went onto eBay and got a B&W CC6 S2 Center Speaker, and two B&W DS6 Surround Speakers.
Due to my hectic schedule, I've only watched a handful of DVD since I got this setup.
However, there is an anomaly that I've noticed that I need some advice on.

When I'm watching a DVD (or DD 5.1 from cable box), I can change sound modes between Stereo and DD with the remote.
While in Stereo Mode, the voices (center) are played from the 2 stereo speakers (center speaker is off), and the voices have good
quality sound and clear high frequencies.
While in DD or DTS (when the center speaker is used) the voices sound "dull" and somewhat "muted".

I wasn't sure if it was a problem with the CC6 speaker or my MIT T2 BiWire cable.
While the BiWire cable was connected to the speaker, I disconnected the "low frequency" red&back cables; this only left the "high frequency" connected.
After I did this, I listened to the tweeter on the CC6, and I could hardly hear anything. So I thought either the tweeter or crossover on the CC6 went bad.
Then I decided to hook the BiWire "low frequency" cables up again, but this time I placed the binding-post connector on the back of the CC6 (this is used when you don't have BiWire cables).
After I did that, there was sound coming from the tweeter, but still did not sound as clear as it should.

I'm not sure what all else to try, and I don't know if the problem is with the speaker or the cable.

In any event, I'm looking to buy a "new" center speaker to replace the CC6, so I can test it with that.
The only problem is that the center speaker cut-out space in my Entertainment Center cabinet is only 18" wide, and the CC6 is 17.7".

Can anyone give advice on a High Quality (biwireable) center speaker that could fit in that 18"W space?
I've looked the new B&Ws and Monitor Audio, but all wider than 18".

Thanks.

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#64799 - 03/18/07 09:03 AM Re: Center Speaker question
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I'd be a little suspicious of the center speaker's tweeter, but there's one other test that's probably worth trying (not sure if you've already tried it or not).
Quote:
While the BiWire cable was connected to the speaker, I disconnected the "low frequency" red&back cables; this only left the "high frequency" connected.
After I did this, I listened to the tweeter on the CC6, and I could hardly hear anything. So I thought either the tweeter or crossover on the CC6 went bad.
Then I decided to hook the BiWire "low frequency" cables up again, but this time I placed the binding-post connector on the back of the CC6 (this is used when you don't have BiWire cables).
After I did that, there was sound coming from the tweeter, but still did not sound as clear as it should.
Have yout tried using the "high frequency" set of cables only and connecting them to the low frequency binding posts? I'd be curious to see if you still hear anything (with and without the jumpers). If there's something amiss with the cable (such as a weak connection at one of the terminations), you'll need to get that fixed before you do anything else.
_________________________
gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#64800 - 03/19/07 10:13 PM Re: Center Speaker question
FAUguy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 247
Loc: FL
Yeah, I'll give that a try.
I'll also swap the inputs on the 7125 so the CC6 center will play a left or right chanel and see if its sounds the same way.

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#64801 - 03/22/07 09:53 PM Re: Center Speaker question
Petey B Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 31
Loc: Baltimore
FAU,
I had the same issue with my CC6 center channel speaker a couple of years ago. Just as Gonk suggests...it was a blown tweeter. Cost about $100 to replace. Good luck.

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#64802 - 03/24/07 06:37 AM Re: Center Speaker question
FAUguy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 247
Loc: FL
I tried some different tests with the B&W CC6 S2.

Test group A was without the binding-post jumpers connected on the rear of the speaker's bi-wire connections
Test group B does have the jumpers installed on the binding-posts.

All test were does with MIT T2 BiWire cable.

--------------------------------
Group A (no jumpers)

Test 1)
Speaker connected to biwire cable. The High Frequency cable to the HF input and Low Freq cable to the LF input.
Sound can be heard from both the woofer and tweeter.
Sound has a "muted" or "muffled" sound to it.

Test 2)
Removed the HF cable, just leaving the LF cable connected to the LF input.
Only hear low freq sound coming from woofer (tweeter no sound).

Test 3)
Removed the LF cable and reconnected the HF cable to the HF input.
Almost no sound could be heard from the tweeter.

I then decided to try the HF cable on the LF input, and LF cable on HF input.

Test 4)
Removed all cables and connected the HF cable to the LF input.
I only heard low freq sound from woofer as in Test 2.

Test 5)
Removed all cables and connected the LF cable to the HF input.
I got almost no sound from the tweeter, just like Test 3.

Test 6)
Removed all cables, then connected the LF cable back to the LF input.
I got the results as in Test 2 and 4.
Then (while the audio was playing) connected the HF cable to the HF input.
I could then hear high freq sound coming from the tweeter, as in test 1, but overall sound still sounded muffled.

Those 6 tests in Group A told me that with the HF cable connected to the HF input, and LF cable to the LF input, that
sound would be heard from both tweeter and woofer. But removed the LF cable with just the HF connected and no sound would be
heard from the tweeter. Also, swapping the LF and HF cables to the opposite inputs had the same results.

-------------------
In Group B in installed the binding post jumper between the HF/LF Black and the HF/LF Red inputs on the back of the speaker.

Test 1)
Speaker has binding post jumpers installed. Connected the LF cable to LF input and HF cable to HF input.
Sound could be heard from both woofer and tweeter (just like group A, test 1), but sound was louder and a litter clearer.

Test 2)
Removed the HF cables, leaving the LF cable connected to the LF input (which has jumper to HF connected).
Sound could be heard from woofer and tweeter, but not as good sound as in test 1.

Test 3)
Removed LF cable and connected HF cable to HF input (with jumpers connected to LF).
Got same results as in Test 2.

Test 4&5)
Same procedure as in Test 4 and 5 in Group A, expect for binding post jumper installed.
I got the same results as in test 2 and 3 in group B

The Group B tests told me that with the binding post jumpers installed, that I would get the same sound
no matter if the HF or LF cable was connected. It only sounded louder and clearer when both HF and LF cables were connected together.


So in conclusion (if you've made it this far), having the LF and HF cables connected to the speaker, while at the
same time having the binding post jumpers connected, give a slightly better sound than just having the LH & HF
connected and not having the jumpers connected.
Still overall, I'm not too happy with the sound produced by the center, as opposed to my 603 mains.
Voices from the 603s (when in 2ch downmix) are better quality than from the CC6 S2 (when in DD/DTS).
I guess I may need to eBay a new B&W center from the HTM series.

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#64803 - 03/24/07 10:06 AM Re: Center Speaker question
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
There are two possibilities that I see, both relating to the center channel speaker. One is that the CC6 isn't a good match for the 603's. Another is that the tweeter is damaged.
_________________________
gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#64804 - 03/26/07 11:11 PM Re: Center Speaker question
Petey B Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 31
Loc: Baltimore
Fau,
I am almost 100% sure your CC6 has a bad tweeter.
I had the very same issue. Ask your local B&W dealer how much they will charge to replace the tweeter. If $125 or so...it may be worth the effort.
Pete

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#64805 - 03/27/07 10:08 AM Re: Center Speaker question
FAUguy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 247
Loc: FL
It very well may be that the tweeter has started to go out.
I'm going to a local B&W dealer tomorrow to listen to some new speakers (704, 703, CM7, 804S, and centers).
I will bring my CC6S2 with me to we can try it out there next to the other centers.

They have some very high-end Amps and Pros there.
I'm wondering if I replace my 10 year old DM603 mains with higher quality mains, that my 990/7125 could be holding them back.

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