It's really almost time for real kids.... Wife keeps shoving the Outlaw credit card in my face asking when we're going to call and order it, gotta love er' eh ? But before I do, I really need some advice from you all regarding peripherals such as cables and perhaps a sub woofer and even a shelving unit for my turntable, or a new media storage rack.


1. Most important right now is speaker cable and interconnects.

Speaker Cable: I do not subscribe to the notion that spending more is synonymous with getting better quality in the case of cables. I'm more into the scientific aspect of it, or engineering aspect which states that one of the most important things is conductivity, and this seems to be the philosophy of Blue Jean Cable manufacturers too:

I was also looking into the anti-cable guys, and thought for a bit that their stuff seemed decently priced, up until I saw the prices of their interconnects, which are a lot more expensive than their speaker cables, which makes zero sense to me at all.

I'd love to hear from anybody who owns Anti cables, or who knows where to get the same type material they use (magnetic wire I think) so I can buy bulk, and make my own. The Anti cable is $10 a foot, while the Blue Jean stuff is .89 cents per foot raw. If I terminate the Blue Jean stuff I think it would run me $45 for two single strands because I need different lengths. Obviously the Anti Cable will still be more. I'll probably just go with the cheaper Blue Jean fix for now, but will investigate the anti cable for later use if it's really that much better.

b. Interconnects. Lots of choices out there, but the Anti Cable guys are way expensive for this option IMO. At the moment, I have these listed as possibilities:

I"m going to need a few pair of them, so spending more than that is out of the question for me for now. I'd love to hear some input from anyone with experience enough to tell me whether or not these brands will allow me to hear any significant sonic differences. I'm not really even sure I believe in such things. So I'm not discrediting the notion that different coloration is possible, or even more or less transparency, but I don't have the time or money right now to start experimenting so we'll have to apply the KISS methodology here.


2. Shelving/housing for Turntable: I've read that keeping your turntable off of the floor is best because of vibrations which occur naturally, but aren't your walls susceptible to the same occurrences ? Is it all just mumbu jumbo propoganda in order to sell $300 pieces of wood to hang on the wall ? I mean, I"ve seen some really expensive wall shelves that are supposedly made just for turntables: ie: isolated/dampened etc etc... I know that the industry is full of snakes and snake oil to boot, and it's confusing to try and separate fact from fiction nowadays.

I NEVER believe in anything that Stereophile and other such magazines try and sell, because in the end, it's all advertisement dollars and company ass kissing. Biased reviews are the norm now, and advert dollars are the reason... I have no problems with getting a shelf for my wall if that's what it will take to reduce vibrations that will mess my TT up, but what do you guys think ?

I mean hell, I can go to home depot and get some 3/4" MDF for really cheap and coat it, then mount it, compared to spending over $300 for a plank from Audio Advisor and such. Thoughts ?


3. I'd eventually either like to get a sub woofer, or perhaps just better speakers that can handle lower frequencies for music. Thoughts on that ? My living room is pretty spacious I suppose. It's attached to a smaller room next to the kitchen, which could be considered a dining room area. The main listening area is 11'3"D x 21'L but if I include the extended alcove area the depth becomes 20 feet rather than 11. For a room of that size, would the Outlaw sub(s) be under powered ?

This post (as a .txt file right now) has been sitting around for about 2 days, so I might as well just put it up and get this started. I want to get speaker cable and interconnects ASAP, as well as a shelf for my TT. And if not a shelf then a recommended media center with which it can share room with my 2150 and cd player and TV. I don't have a flat screen yet. Come to think of it, I'm going to post some pics of my place so you guys have an idea of what I'm working with.


Oh, and before I forget, the last decision I'll have to make is whether or not I go for a B stock unit or a new one. The savings with the B stock is amazing, considering there's no shipping, it's a straight $499 ! That's pretty awesome right there, but I certainly wouldn't want to skimp on a perfectly working unit (as in, it's in the same working order as a new unit) A scratch or ding on the top or rear won't bother me too much, if it's hidden by what is storing the unit. But if it's a really evident thing, I might feel differently.

My main concern is: Under what circumstances did people send back their 2150's ? What reasons ? Didn't like the sound ? Hell...I'd hate to own Bughunter's ex-2150, since he probably tried to sabotage it !

Long post, I know. Sorry. But I'd really like as much advice as you guys can throw my way, regardless of it being subjective advice etc..

Thanks !

Doug

Oh, and I forgot to ask you guys in regards to the speaker cable, if you prefer to go bare wire into the binding posts, or prefer terminated ends. If I were to go terminated, I think I like the idea of spades more than banana tips. What about you guys ?

And would you go single ended or double ?

Pics on their way.

I'd go with the 10 gauge speaker cable from Blue Jeans with the standard banana connections.

That is really good speaker cable and the banana connectors they sell are solid.

Would go with them for the interconnects as well. I don't think you'll have any complaints using their stuff at all.

As a brief aside, amazing how the price of copper has really messed with the cable people.

About a year ago a foot of the ten white speaker cable from blue jeans was $.66 per foot.

I know that the price of copper has put a real dent into Monster's bottom line.

You think it's bad for cable folks like Blue Jeans (and I know it has to be), you should see what it does to contractors. We've had cooling coils stolen out of condensing units on job sites for the scrap value of copper. We've even had one contractor ask to substitute stainless steel in place of copper for some domestic water piping because of price increases between bid day and when they were able to place their order. The worst, though, was a demo crew hired by an owner to haul off some old equipment - instead, they stripped the copper out of the machine they were supposed to remove (leaving the steel shell) and then pulled copper feeders out of conduit that was supposed to remain to feed exterior lights. I'm told that particular demo contractor was arrested, thankfully...

Cables... I've used both Outlaw and Blue Jeans analog audio interconnects - in fact, almost all of my analog audio cabling is from one of those two companies. (The exception being some really long runs of low-priority cable that connects spare outputs of the cable box to the DVD recorder for archiving things like children's TV shows to DVD for our daughter, which requires a pretty long run and thus has MonoPrice cables that cost me about $8.) You can't go wrong with either. Keep in mind that the PCA's locking connectors offer the advantage of a sure-fire connection, but come at the price of probably busting a knuckle or two to get them all tightened down (especially if the rear panels are hard to get to, which is less likely in a case like this than in a home theater setup).

For speaker cable, I also like spades in most cases. Banana is the most convenient - it's what I use for surrounds at both the amp and the wall plate behind the equipment rack. Bare wire is a nice secure connection, as well, but I only use it at my surround speakers where space is an issue (flush mounted rear surrounds and wires tucked tight to the corner of wall and ceiling next to binding posts mounted in the ceiling). By single-ended or double, are you talking about bi-wiring? If so, I assume that your speakers support bi-wiring.

I have never shopped for a shelf or cabinet to support a turntable, but from a purely mechanical perspective the goal would seem to be to manage vibration. A floor will deflect more than a wall, but how much deflection will depend on the floor construction and your proximity to structure underneath. A stud in a wall will be less prone to movement, but it still has the potential for some movement. You mention MDF versus some fancy plank of wood - one reason that MDF is so often used in speakers is its ridigity. It's likely to be less prone to movement by itself than something else, both either can be affected by movement of the structure they are sitting on or bolted to. A stable shelf or stand (something that doesn't add movement to the overall system) and some vibration isolators (something that can absorb some of the structural movement and lessen the effect of floor or wall movement caused by walking around or running your sub nice and loud) would seem like a good approach, at least from the perpsective of someone who has not ever tried to set a good turntable up.

When contemplating B-stock, remember that it has the same warranty as A-stock (not to mention an inspection process that should be able to catch any "sabotage").

Sweet Spot,
Thoughts:
Your right on w/ interconnects and speaker cable.
There are a couple of places you can trove for cables...
I have had good luck w/ Signal Cable (Speaker and inter-con) and Outlaw inter-con.
I have seen good reports about River Cable speaker cables - but no personal experience.

Both sites (Signal/River Cable) list Resistance and Capacitance. And both sites have low snake oil thru the web pages.

I have also made my own (DIY) CAT5e - that where interesting. I prefer the signal cables (bi-wired) over them. I prefer terminated ends.
Outlaw inter-con sound good. Except i have a couple of the outer shielding coming out of the RCA plugs.

Stay away from monster in less you are in a bind.

I have heard good thing from Outlaw subs and they should be fine. There are others that will do the job also: HSU, Axiom, SVS, JL, Velodyne, etc....

B-stock should be okay.

Turntable is isolation. I'm sure there are some gunslingers who can chime in.... personally - i like the granite approach or tip-toes.

Keeps us up on your project... sounds like fun.
Later

Pics of living room to show space for sub:












And yeah, the place is still a bit bare. Just moved in so new artwork is in order. My wife claims that she can paint better pieces than those I've seen and liked, so I'll be buying her new tools with which she can prove that claim !

Edit: The last pic was unnecessary/redundant.

As you can see in the second pic, behind the chairs and next to the dining room table is the kitchen, which of course is the length of the wall where the chairs are. I don't know how much that will affect the acoustics overall, but just something to consider. The width of it is about 7 feet, so not too big.

Thanks for the links. Checking out the River stuff, I'm a bit wary of them. Actually, I'm a bit wary of any company who states that at every single price point you happen to be looking at, the level of detail and extension etc etc is unparalleled by any other cable. What contradictory hype I think that is !

It's literally like they're saying " Get Cable A and you'll get the best cable around !" and then in another quote : "Get Cable B and you'll get the best cable around !" Too many flashy ads and distractions.. Which I guess is the point of what most of these companies do, since there ARE a lot of gullible people out there.

What are tip toes (I'm guessing pointy spikes or something that you put on the feet of your TT), and what is the granite approach ? Thanks. But the Signal cable stuff looks to be more reasonable.

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@ Gonk: Which cable were you referring to here ? Lost me a tad. And actually, what I meant by single or double was the termination preference, not bi-wiring. I can't bi-wire with my Energies (I don't think so anyway. Only two binding posts)

And wow, I had no idea of the state of copper these days ! Since when has there been a shortage of good copper ?

Copper supplies have been stretched thin for at least the last year or so.

What exactly did you mean by single or double ended termination?

Are you talking about running two sets of cables for each connection vs just one?

And when Gonk was talking about the PCAs, those are the Outlaw audio interconnects with locking RCA connectors.

http://outlawaudio.com/products/cab_pca_about.html

I also completely agree with your statements about the other websites. I'm not sure that anyone has definitively shown that silver plated copper wire is any better for speaker wire than just good ol' high quality/high purity copper. And solid silver wire is just too expensive for the benefit you get.