Someone please clarify how the RR2150 bass boost works when operating WITHOUT a subwoofer:

(1) Can the 55Hz/65Hz/80Hz front panel control bass boost be applied as 3 separate adjustments to emulate a 3 band equalizer, or are you just able to pick ONE frequency?

(2) With the above, can you select a range of dB values for the amount of dB boost or are the choices limited to exactly a 6 dB boost or else no boost at all?

(3) Separate from the 3-setting bass boost control, Is there a different independent control for the traditional "bass" knob at 50 Hz?

(4) If so, does this mean you can have two types of bass adjustments in effect at once?

I can offer a little insight on this, perhaps...

(1) The front panel controls would not emulate a 3 band EQ, as you can only choose one of the frequencies (or none of them).

(2) There is no independent dB boost control available. It is just a 6dB boost. Here's a relevant quote from page 18 of the manual:
Based on that, it also isn't like a traditional "single point" EQ at all - it is boosting the signal from that specific frequency all the way down, as a way to counteract natural speaker roll-off. So if you had a null at 55Hz, setting this control to 55Hz might not be an ideal solution since it would also boost the signal below that null..

(3) There are bass and treble controls that allow +/-6dB of control over each separately, along with a tone defeat button to disable those knobs (in case just having them "zero'd" isn't enough for your peace of mind).

(4) Yes, both of these adjustments are independent of each other, although Outlaw does (wisely) recommend caution when using the speaker EQ in conjunction with a full +6dB bass tone control. They are also both independent of the subwoofer bass management feature.

Thank you. Your explanation was exactly the information I was looking for.

So it sounds like I can have some measure of control, but not as intricate or subtle as a multiband equalizer.

With my old speakers, I wasn't happy until I got a 24 band equalizer. I may end up doing the same this time, but first I will hook it up and listen for a week before making a decision.

See my other thread where I posted this question -- Does anyone know if a digital-controls equalizer can give good sound quality? I'm thinking of the Technical Hifi EQ-S5200, 10 bands.

Now that I have the unit set up (RR2150 with Polk Audio Monitor 70s), I realize I do need a subwoofer with rock music. The Polks generate midrange two 6.5 inch speakers, and then bass is created from two other 6.5 inch speakers. So the sound is wonderful for human voice, piano, strings, classical, jazz, but not rock, which needs a deeper bass.

So, I've ordered a Velodyne VR-1200 subwoofer, self-powered with a 130 wpc amp, and which can run with internal crossovers or not.

With respect to hooking up with the RR2150, what is going to be better:

(1) Using the switch on the RR2150 for crossover frequency, with the subwoofer output going into the Velodyne subwoofer as a line input without using a crossover, or

(2) Running the "A" speakers output from the RR2150 into the Velodyne speaker input, which then goes through an internal crossover, and the Polk main speakers have a second output to connect to off of the subwoofer.

(3) Or is the correct or best way none of the above?

I'd definitely start with option (1), with the RR2150's bass management switch set to "60" to start with and the Velodyne's crossover either bypassed or (if there's no bypass) set as high as possible. EDIT: I also just realized that my first glance at the Monitor 70's specs was a bit misleading. The -3dB point is 40Hz (even though the listed frequency response range starts at 30Hz). Based on that, I'd suggest trying both the 60Hz and the 80Hz crossover points using the RR2150's bass management switch.

Well, I got the sub (Velodyne VR-1200, 130 wpc continuous, 195 watts peak, 12 inch speaker with rear port) a couple nights ago and hooked it up yesterday to the Outlaw RR2150 100 wpc receiver with my Polk Monitor 70s (rated 275 wpc, each speaker has one 1 inch tweeter, two 6.5 inch midrange, and two 6.5 inch bass).

It made a world of difference on any type of music with a central bass melody.

The odd thing is, I had to boost the below-55-Hz signal by 6 dB coming from my Outlaw receiver's subwoofer output to get the sub to respond adequately, plus turn the sub volume all the way up. I think there was some kind of input level mis-match. Thank god the Outlaw RR2150 has this rather atypical control, which boosts all frequencies below a selected threshold (55, 65, 80 Hz) by exactly 6 dB. I found out that this boost is applied simultaneously both to the speaker mains (A, B, A+B) and to the subwoofer output.

I also tried playing with the Receiver's subwoofer filter (dividing the mains versus sub outputs at selected crossovers of 60, 80, or 100 Hz or else full spectrum to both mains and sub output). Also tried playing with the subwoofer's internal crossover filter (ranging from 60 to 120 Hz) and also the sub amp's volume control.

I ended up with subwoofer's internal amp at full volume and the receiver bass boost at +6 dB for below 55Hz, and the subwoofer's internal crossover about 100 Hz and the receiver's crossover at 60 Hz.

Don't ask me why, I just tried all possible combinations and this is just what seemed to work best. The 80 Hz crossover point on the RR2150 sent too much signal to the sub, leaving the main speaks a bit too high and shallow sounding, and with the sub output sounding a bit muddy because I suspect it has much higher distortion in a 12 inch speaker at 80 Hz compared to the Polk Audio 6.5 inch speakers. Also, changing the crossover on the sub to a higher level caused a little bit of poor quality upper bass with a muddy sound, probably because of unwanted harmonics being reproduced poorly by the sub. And turning off the 55 Hz-and-below bass boost on the RR2150 made the sub barely audible. Same thing with turning down the sub internal volume below the range of 75% to 100% volume - I just couldn't hear it. Perhaps the inputs levels are not high enough, but I would think the RR2150 wouldn't have that problem, when dealing with an experienced subwoofer manufacturer such as Velodyne, even though this was one of their lower end models.

ONE QUESTION -- Has anyone ever experienced a brand new subwoofer out of the box to need a few minutes of listening time just to "break in" to start kicking out the volume? I swear when I first plugged it in, all of the different settings I tried hardly worked until it had been on quite a while.

Well, I talked to the Velodyne representative.

He said that the VRP and VX series have a problem with a lot of 2.1 systems because those systems deliver a lower level signal feeding the subwoofer compared to the surround sound systems. Therefore, he said I'm probably doing the best I can given that product. However, he told me that at a volume setting of 100%, the Velodyne amp may be compressing the signal because it thinks at the higher volume setting it must protect the speaker from clipping. OF COURSE, the only solution he recommends is that I'm supposed to exchange it for a more expensive Velodyne sub.

As usual, it boils down to more marketing to get the consumer to shell out more money. The Velodyne representative thinks I should be spending AS MUCH on my subwoofers as I spend on the main speakers. He actually said that.

However, I will never turn up the volume on my 100 wpc Outlaw Receiver farther than 9:00, so it is unlikely I will be sending that much power to the subwoofer's speaker. Hence, the problem was in the INPUT level being too low, which I ALMOST, not quite fixed by using the Outlaw Receiver's 6 dB boost for all signals below 55 Hz. Even though, I still had the subwoofer volume set to 100 percent.

The Velodyne rep also tried to talk me into a higher power subwoofer, given my room size of 3100 cubic feet (25 x 15), using highly efficient main speakers with a lot of midrange power (total of eight 6.5 inch speakers) at moderate listening volumes for those speakers. However, I'm not convinced I need a better setup because with the subwoofer corner-located in the room, I had no trouble hearing good bass at any listening location.

In my opinion, the proof is in the sound. I like the sound now that I have restricted the bass to below 60Hz, so only that portion is sent to the subwoofer, and I have increased both input signal level and internal gain volume for the subwoofer. So what if the volume is at 100 percent, because my ears don't hear compression distortion in the subwoofer's output, although the Velodyne rep said there would be some. I'm thinking the subwoofer's internal signal compression doesn't kick in until the subwoofer's total OUTPUT signal sent to it's speakers goes beyond a certain level, but that might depend on the circuit design. At least it seems that way based on my listening. And right now the sub volume is well balanced to the main speakers' volume, and I'm unlikely to EVER NEED to turn the system volume up higher than 9:00 because the Polk Monitor 70s are extremely efficient.

Are you really satisfied with it or are you just convincing yourself of that ? ... just a thought .

As a consumer ..... I'm bombarded with choices. It comes down to this ...... if I don't love it ---- leave it .

I don't have any stake in Outlaw or anything, but their LFM-1 Compact sure looks nice and it's likely a better quality unit than the Velodyne . They're only $339 right now .... they had free shipping too , but I'm not sure if it's still valid or not.


Either way ...... happy listening !!

I think it actually is typical for subs to cost one to two times the cost of one speaker in a matched system.

Look at packages from Atlantic Technologies, Klipsch, Monster Cable, etc. and the subs are all priced either around same price as one main speaker (a little less for the AT 6200e, about same for Klipsch 650, although you need an amp to drive them, and twice price for Monster Cable THX package).

And you certainly aren't going to save money buying Velodyne. They are the big name (not necessarily best though) in subs and price their products accordingly.

Dang I should never have started reading these forums, I am catching the "upgrade" bug, it's contagious and spread by talking about Polk speakers and Outlaw Audio equipment.

OK, so after the Velodyne guy busted my hump over the phone yesterday about it being bad to use the VRP1200 with volume at 100%, I started checking prices. Well, lo and behold J&R electronics has the Polk 505 subwoofer for $299 plus $39 shipping. And circuit city will give me a full refund on the Velodyne.

So what are the pros or cons to upgrading to the Polk 505?

Pro - 300 watts continous, 450 watts dynamic, @+/-3dB response 28 Hz to 125 Hz

Pro - get rid of the Velodyne, 130 watts continuous, 195 peak, @+/- 3dB response 29 Hz to 160 Hz

Pro - won't have to turn the volume knob on the sub up to 100% all the time.

Con - spouse will have a fit as this will be the third upgrade in 7 days - from no sub at all, to a 100 watt sub, then to a 130 watt sub, now to a 300 watt sub

Opinions on how to fast talk my way into this? Maybe Kay Jewelers?