I do not know how many of my fellow Outlaws have jumped into the blu-ray pool but I myself had been waiting until the format war is over.
Now that it is I have been considering a Sony with the Profile 2.0 as a standalone player. Recently read on this forum that Sony might not be a good match with the 990.
Since that reading it has been suggested that the Panasonic is a better candidate for the 990.
I read an article in the Jult edition of Home Theater Mag by Joshua Zyber that claims even the new DMP-BD 50 from Panasonic is still not perfect. The UniPhier processing chip that is in the DMP-BD30 is being implemented in the BD-50 and has problematic standard-definition deinterlacing and upscaling.
You would think that with the format war at an end consumers would have and easy choice. Not only that but a standalone player that gives a high quality picture and sound without scrathing your head as to figuring out how to hookup the thing.
Zyber...and I quote "if someone were to ask me today to name the best Blu-ray player for thier needs, I wouldn't be able to recommend one without listing off a host of caveats for any potential purchase, and that just seems unacceptable at this stage of the game".

In reading this article I agree with Zyber whole heartedly since I cannot figure out what Blu-ray player to buy to match my system.

The BD50 is a pretty decent candidate. The only observations that I can offer are that (1) the UniPhier chip (which is also used in my BD30) is not the greatest for handling standard DVD playback and (2) the multichannel analog output is apparently 5.1 only, so if you have a 7.1 setup there are a few choices to be made there. Personally, I have found the BD30 to be a very strong player (excellent BD picture quality, quick disc load times and player start-up times compared to the rest of the stand-alone players on the market), and the BD50 takes that platform and adds onboard decoding of all the new audio formats and Profile 2.0 support. I don't think the BD50 presents a "host of caveats" - certainly a few, but you can find a few caveats for any piece of consumer electronics, especially this early in the life cycle of a new format. Josh is a bit harder on the BD30 than I am, so it's not surprising to see his feelings carry over to the BD50. I agree with him that the standard DVD performance is merely fair, but I'm also comparing it to some of the better standard DVD players around (including OPPO's 983H). The BD30 would do as well as or better than any of my non-OPPO players.

Get the sony PS3!

Gonk or anyone,
I was considering the pioneer DV 410V-K 1080p Upconvert dvd player. This player is on sale this week at Best Buys' for $99.00 with no tax.
Compared to Oppos' product which I respect what is your opinion between the two.

I want to replace my faithful Toshiba a standard 5disc player with a player that can upconvert to 1080p.
However I do intend buy a Blu-Ray player which I know can handle the job of upconverting standard dvd's. I also have a Sony 777 disc player that I intend to hold on to.
Is it a waste of money for an upconvert player since I eventually intend to buy a blu-ray player? Should I just keep the Toshiba...I was going to give it to my daugther.
My Toshiba is six maybe eight years old. I bought it for $99.00 at Costco. Well worth the money and it doesn't owe me a penny.
My interest still lies with the Panasonic BD50 but I do not know if I will jump right in until I see what Sony intends to do. What is your opinon of Sony's upcoming next generation blu-ray players?

Thanks for a reality check when it comes to electronics and the caveats that automaticlly come with them.

Lizard King...PS3 does not work for me because I am not into gaming. I know that may sound crazy because there are some really great and entertaining games on the market but for now I am a big time MOVIE buff as well as MUSIC addict.

Thanks

The MSRP for the 410V is listed as $99 at Pioneer's site (see this link , so the sale price isn't terribly "sale" like (although the no sales tax is nice). Since everybody seems to have it at $99 too, though, I think you may have found the best place to get it.

A player upgrade will only benefit you if it offers better scaling and deinterlacing than your Infocus and better MPEG decoding than your current player. There's no mention of the scaling solution being used by the Pioneer. There's a fair chance that it's a Mediatek chip (Pioneer's used them before and Mediatek supports USB), but that's not guaranteed. The fact that they don't specify the scaler/deinterlacer does mean that it's almost certainly a single chip similar to the Mediatek that's handling everything (MPEG decoding, audio decoding, deinterlacing, and scaling). The player is new enough to market that I can't find much on its performance - it appears to be hitting stores just this month.

Compared to your Toshiba (which is probably comparable to the SD1600 that we used in the bedroom until earlier this year), the Pioneer would almost certainly be an upgrade for you even without knowing how good the deinterlacing and scaling performance is. If you do want to try a player upgrade while waiting for the Profile 2.0 Blu-ray players to mature, this seems like a pretty decent choice.

Thanks Gonk!

I listen to you more than I do the sales-people.

Glad to help...

Here's the link to the updated CNet review of the Panasonic BD-50:
CNet Panasonic DP-BD50 Review

I was really looking forward to this player as I could connect it to the 5.1 inputs on my 1070 but I really have to wonder if it's worth the $700 asking price. With no SACD or DVD-A support I'd have to sacrifice that current use of my 1070 (I was hoping for at least one of the formats to be supported). I also wonder how long it will be before I have another HDMI device streaming one of the HD formats MPCM / DTS HD MA / DD+ . Surely, the HD satellite boxes will eventualy support one of these not to mention PC audio/video cards. At that point there'll be no choice but to upgrade to an HDMI-capable receiver/processor.

Outside of the 5.1 analog HD audio support I don't see much going for the BD50 (for my personal use). And I've talked myself into that being a short-term benefit as well.

Hmmm...suddenly the PS3 is looking more and more attractive as an option. I could live with the DTS core until my next receiver upgrade...it would be nice to get a list of some of the features for the upcoming 1070/970 replacement so I don't get too anxious and jump ship

-John

It is because of my existing DVD-Audio and SACD use that I was willing to settle for the HD-A2 last summer and the BD30 last fall: the fact that neither can decode the new formats and output multichannel analog didn't matter, since I didn't plan to surrender the multichannel analog input to them anyway. Of course, I also made do with stereo analog output from DVD for the better part of two years before getting a receiver that gave me access to Dolby Digital and DTS. I chose the BD30 over the PS3 because it gave me an IR remote and a traditional standalone player (both of which are more wife friendly than a game console with a Bluetooth remote) without sacrificing performance (Blu-ray disc load times are very comparable between the two). At some point (probably close to spring 2009, although that's just my personal SWAG) I think there's some hope that we'll see one or two Blu-ray players that offer support for DVD-A and SACD.

I don't know that we'll see cable and satellite using DD+, TrueHD, or DTS-HD in the foreseeable future. DD+ is a "maybe" in my mind, as it may be able to compress a bit more efficiently, but both cable and satellite have bandwidth concerns that will make the bulk of a lossless multichannel format undesirable.

Thanks John for the site.
What I have read from CNet just makes me want to wait even more.
I am not a gamer so I am not considering the PS3.

When is a good up to date reasonable Blu-Ray Player going to hit the market.
Sony was so intent on the demise of Toshiba's HD format and Sony has done nothing to satisfy the consumer.
It is a disgrace.

BRING BACK TOSHIBA!!!!!!!!!!

I have been waiting to get into Blu-ray for a while and will continue to wait for a while longer for two reasons: (1) I want to see what Outlaw implements in the 990 successor in terms of the new audio formats, video processing, etc., and (2) I want to see what Oppo does for its rumored BD player (I'm hoping it will play SACD and DVD-A). If that means being left out in the cold a while longer, so be it.

rubbersoul,

The other player I was considering is the upcoming Sony BDP-S550 which, according to this press release, will be approx. $500.

Upcoming Sony Blu-Ray Players

It has on-board decoding and 7.1 outputs as well, no word on SACD support though.

There's a nice chart here detailing the audio abilities of various available and soon-to-be-available blu-ray players:
Blu-ray Player Audio Support

I'm not completely sold on the PS3 either but it's additional ability to act as a networked media server is kind of swaying me a bit as well...

-John

The BDP-S550 looks like a good mix of feature set and price, especially for the huge installed base of home theaters without the latest HDMI support at the receiver/processor. I wonder if its arrival will lead to a price drop on the BD50, as the two are going to be clearly matched in head-to-head competition in the marketplace.

Like RCF051, I am very interested in seeing what OPPO brings to the table when the time finally comes. There were rumors that they might be ready to offer some hints this summer, although the last time I talked to anyone there they were still tight-lipped about Blu.
Aside from the PS3, Sony has so far lagged behind in hardware development for Blu-ray. Samsung has been out in front when it comes to speed to market, but that has not been much of a kindness to consumers since it also meant the first ones out of the gate were pretty rough around the edges. Panasonic and Pioneer have done well, by and large, especially in the last year or so (starting with Panasonic's BD10A, I'd say). I was pleased with what Toshiba did for hardware on HD-DVD, but what they've done since throwing in the towel is a bit disappointing. Rather than use that experience to produce good Blu-ray or Blu-ray/HD-DVD hardware, they are trying to market upconverting DVD players as equal to HD players - which, having seen some of the top video scaling available today used for DVD (the Anchor Bay chips in OPPO's 983H) alongside a trio of true HD sources (cable, HD-DVD, and Blu-ray), strikes me as just obnoxious and deceptive. I'd much rather see them leverage that HD-DVD experience to give them an edge in building Profile 2.0 players than try to mislead and confuse consumers.

I wrote to Oppo in regards to there invovlement with Blu-Ray and this is there response.

I thought it would be informative.

We have not yet aligned ourselves to the Blu-Ray high definition video format. The primary reason for this is that we feel that the current hardware solutions are not mature enough to be implemented and released by OPPO Digital. Our operational motto is to "make a mature product better". The Blu-Ray specifications are continually in flux, and we can't afford to create a solution which will become obsolete within a year.

We are vigorously investigating all current and future hardware solutions, however we do not know when we will commit to them.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119

That's been their standard response all year...

I'm Pleased to see that Oppo is sticking to their guns on this. They have a business phylosophy that works and has provided a great service to the user community. I' d hate to see them become another "Me too , quick-to-market" company.That could only drive up costs and reduce quality.

It might be there standard response but if it is they are still not letting the cat out of the bag...if there is something in the bag.
My opinion is that I am sticking to my guns with holding off on Blu-Ray because I do not want to regret that I did not have enough patience to wait for that Grand Slam player.
My main concerns are simple:


Fair pricing
Excellent picture quality
Good Quality Blu-Ray Discs...Why do some discs give poor picture quality and sound or at least no better than standard discs?
HDMI,DVI,Component
Capability of use with any receiver or processor

Let's get on with it!!!! They are not inventing the wheel but reinventing a better one.

Interesting article, the inital discussion compares uncompressed PCM to the Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD MA but further down it compares the lossless and lossy schemes.
http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM

Now I'm swaying back towards getting a PS3 + one of these (instead of a stand-alone with internal decoding):
http://ir2bt.com/

-John

Gamer or not, the PS3 is quite a good Blu-ray player and it also has excellent credentials as a home media center, with the ability to play audio, video and image files, and to stream media from a UPnP server. At the price of $399 for the 40GB version (which will be expanded to 80GB in a new PS3 model to be released in the Fall), it is really hard to beat, even if you never play a single game on it.

That Home Entertainment Magazine article deserves very close analysis. I honestly think that DTS and Dolby stacked the deck in those tests. Note that the sample audio they chose featured very sparse audio textures: a little dialog, a couple of instruments. That kind of texture is not difficult to compress. Where lossy compression schemes are a liability is in dense audio textures in which the compression scheme starts throwing away ambience and inner details that it assumes won't easily be heard.

In tests that Soundhound and I did in his studio years ago, comparing DTS and Dolby DD5.1 tracks, the difference between those two -- and what they threw away -- was quite easy to hear. And, of course, the audio quality of any compressed track pales compared to the original, uncompressed audio stems such as Soundhound could play from his ProTools console.

I welcome the new, lossless schemes. Their increased quality is readily apparent--even the comparatively limited improvement of DD+--and is as important an addition to HD disc as the increased pixel resolution, IMO.