I hear it with the 976 but never would have if not looking for it. I hear normal noise floor until -10dB. This was with the quarter inch adapter from my Sony MDRs plugged in and with the 976 set to FM tuner and listening to the static noise. Adjusting the volume doesn't audibly change the level of noise for me until -10. Above this I can start to hear the radio static being adjusted by the volume through the front channels. Up until about -10, I assume I am only hearing the noise floor on the amplifier? I wonder if the noise floor of your amplifier is covering this up? I can't hear it with my CDs but I listen to music pre-loudness wars, hence using the tuner's static rather than dynamic music. It appears level of the signal into the pre is a factor.

I had a few of the '70s Marantz and Pioneer receivers. On a lot of the vintage receivers the audio actually traveled through analog switches and controls. They would cause popping and noise from your speaker when the control would get dirty because audio traveled through the controls. Other than possibly having a very small amount of crosstalk with these units it would be apples and oranges because you are physically disconnecting the audio signal from the rest of the product with the vintage, all analog units.

IMO Bill O, you're beating a dead horse and are frustrated over nothing. You can't hear any noise? Great! Time to move on, you know what they say about life being too short. I don't comment much but do like to read the forums. Outlaw responses have been pretty helpful and insightful. A few people weighed in that they wish Outlaw chimed in more for the same reason even though they are busy. To doubt the manufacturers and then to make a comment about if they want to prove you wrong, they can pay shipping both ways made me giggle. I would guess these type of passive aggressive responses are why Outlaw generally acts as moderators only, and why they say the forum is not for trying to garner technical support from Outlaw. I would be willing to bet they have much better things to do with their time (cough, immersive audio, cough) than argue about a unit they designed.
Because you can't hear it, it seems you are inferring they would lie about something publicly, and admit to having some "very, very low level noise" (which no manufacturer would want to do) that they do not have? For what reason? I don't think companies are in the habit about lying about noise they don't have. I would expect the opposite and that companies would be more likely to try and cover things up. You think this is being done, for what, to avoid having ONE SINGLE 975 sent in to be looked at and possibly fixed? Do we have two fellow conspiracy theorists here? I am sorry but I read this and think how ludicrous: someone is trying to stir the pot.

With the 976, this whole conversation should be a non starter. I can hear it with the tuner, but it so infinitesimally small my ear is on top of the tweeter. I imagine Orca might want to send the 975 in. Outlaw says both units do it. I'd try to find out if the 975 normally exhibits this much more strongly than the 976 and if this could account for the difference. How many people have the 975 and 976 in the same system to test back and forth? Probably not many. You will probably get a quicker answer if you go directly to Outlaw than hoping for one of us to have both pres running L & R channels to the same amplifier with the same speakers. I cannot help but wonder if you have an agenda outside of having Outlaw look at your 975. Why else would you receive an answer, drive an hour to try to prove them wrong about a model you do not own, and continually try to receive Outlaw support via the public forum when you know this is for interaction between those of us who have or are looking into buying Outlaw products? Geeze, I guess conspiracies are contagious. I have spent far too much time with this. Time for you to handle things the right way and pose your questions directly to Outlaw.

Well......Salty it's not about Bill O NOT being able to hear it and moving on. Moreover, it's the fact that it DOESN'T after Ben stated he had over 4 units that ALL exhibit this, and this is normal that bothers me.
Let's face it, it wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer lied about a product. I'm not saying they're lying but, I am concerned about the conflicting facts.
That's why I posted a thread to see if others are experiencing this issue with these two processors.
You see it's not about, as you say, a conspiracy. It's about fact-finding.
Bill O is the only person I know that's close enough for me to verify for myself about this issue.
In closing, my only agenda is fact-finding. Because so far Outlaws statements and the facts prove to be ambiguous.

Whats my beef ?
I convinced Orca to give Outlaw Audio consideration while searching for a new AVR in his new home,. It would be his first venture into the world of seperates..We have been friends since 1958...
I had recieved the 976, only 2 days prior to him receiving the 975..
His question to me was should he hear music to his speakers while listening to headphones ?
My answer was, register on Outlaw Forums, ask the question yourself as this would be best ..
He registered, expected to be confirmed within a 24 hr period as is normal according to Outlaw
It was I believe a 5-7 days before he received confirmation.
So I posted for him ..

My agenda is not vindictive ,in an attempt to find answers to this problem of hearing speakers @ 12 ft distance ,I posted where other members could chime in...IE , is any one else experiencing this ?
Is there something in menu option that can rectify this situation ?


As you stated you had to create a situation where you could hear the leakage. Orca hears it on every source..
I hear it on none, I will not attempt to do as you did on FM/AM since I do not listen to either on the 976.I will in fact believe that you do hear what you state. After all , that is what we are doing here, in house, finding what is normal and/or acceptable by other members also
I am informed by Ben that he has a few 975 and 976's on his bench and they all exhibit the same trait, ( @ 1.5-2.5 ft ) that is leakage thru to speakers while headphones plugged in. I have none so therefor I have an alternative agenda according to you I guess.
So here is my offer to any outlaw person/s: they are welcome to come to my house and listen for themselves, I will not pay your way.
If outlaw Ben wants to do his best to replicate what they are hearing from there test units on my 976 ,they can pay shipping both ways.
Guess I am not being fair, but I am on a limited budget and every expenditure is weighed prodigiously.

Wow. The saloon sure is heating up!
I worked as a repair technician for over 40 years. Hadn't seen a product yet that did't have at least a quirk or two. Made a lot of money fixing or even modding them.
The big dog brands put out a new model every year and seemingly never look back at what may have been wrong with a previous year model's feature or two. I even saw where some of these quirks were carried on to the next gen model.

I mentioned owning both of these processors. But I never tried the headphone output on the 975. Being in my main theater, I listen through main speakers 100% of the time. So far, the same is said for my 976.
But, this is my point. The headphone feature on an AV processor to me, is an afterthought feature. One that's added to accommodate a small percentage of users. Perhaps their bedroom processor, or a secondary room.
I could be wrong, but how many actually do use their systems with headphones?
I'm sure that is one feature that Outlaw really didn't spend a lot of time on developing.
I love my 976. Haven't had any issues, other than the periodic HDMI port cleaning. Actually, I've only cleaned the 976 ports once since I've had it in the system. I needed to clean the ports on my 975 several times in the 4 years I owned that one. But that would be true for any HDMI connected devices.
As far as quirkiness goes, the 976, for me, has really been great. Of course I use it in a more traditional system, predominately for movie watching and music listening through my main speakers.

Muting circuits can be 100% mute. Or, they can be a percentage less than 100%. I'm thinking, Ben is telling you the 975 and the 976 isn't muting the speakers 100% for the headphone function. Could it be a lesser percent mute on the 975? Sure.
This thread is 3 pages long now, not many have chimed in. So maybe I'm right. Not many use the headphone feature.

Thanks Helson for your insight .
I doubt that I will use the headphone jack on my 976 either, yet before my wife passed away over a year ago I did use it on the 990 often..
She would watch a movie, I would plug in the phones and read when I did not care to watch.
So while it may constitute an afterthought to some , it is a nice feature to us that use/d it.
This is the same situation that Orca is in. Headphone use for him is often enough to where it has raised concerns .
Since you are more knowledgeable than me, could he turn his amp ' Off" to remedy his problem with the 975 while listening to headphones ?
I suspect it could not be as simple as that or it should have been mentioned..

..

Wow.......Thank you Helson & Bill O.
I bought headphones because wife is very sick and in bed most of the time and headphones are the only way I can entertain myself without disturbing her.
It never occurred to me to shut off the outlaw 5000 amp. Just tried it and I have no noise coming out of my speakers. Problem solved.