#97383 - 12/23/17 01:57 PM
Re: Flakey remote?
[Re: Outlaw Ben]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 01/13/16
Posts: 77
Loc: Texas
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Thanks, Ben...I had no doubt that the remote was thoroughly tested. My remote issue is different...more about function confusion. My volume down button, when pushed...sent the volume up...this happened twice, but has not happened again. Also, I think that my Panasonic Plasma IR has the same "off" frequency, if this is what you call it...because when I turn off my 976 (via the Remote), the Plasma TV also turns off! But, when I turn on the 976 with the 976 Remote, the TV does not turn back on. UPDATE: IR REPEATER...I installed a repeater, and it has greatly improved IR reception...which I expected. I then placed all my IR enabled equipment inside my Salamander Cabinet. Aside from the warnings about putting the IR repeater receiver near the plasma TV, or on it, I have not seen any IR issues regarding the sensor which I placed next to the Panasonic name on the front of my TV! Pic of my set up...doors have metal mesh panels, not glass.
Edited by drueb (12/23/17 02:28 PM)
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Outlaw Model 976 AV Surround Processor Outlaw Model 5000 5 Channel Amplifier JBL Studio 590 Left and Right JBL Studio 520C Center 2 JBL Sub 550P Polk 265RT 3 Way Surrounds (in wall) Sony Bravia 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED TV Panasonic DP-UB820-K 4K Player Technics SL 1210 GR (2019) Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk - Phono Preamp Ortofon Bronze 2M; Ortofon Headshell;Emmeline Nighthawk Phono Pre-Amp by Ray Sammuels Schitt Loki Wire World RCA Cables Drop THX AAA 789 Headphone Amp Blue Jeans Speaker Cable Belden 10-gauge 5T00UP (Front L&R and Center) Blue Jeans Interconnects LC-1's
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#97395 - 12/24/17 01:09 PM
Re: Flakey remote?
[Re: J.S.]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 12/16/17
Posts: 58
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
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I have now experienced flakey IR behavior and I think it may be a software issue. My statement about Plasma interference above can be disregarded for troubleshooting...
Like others I have had remote commands that are ignored (menu navigation and volume) and then when the 976 does respond to the remote button press it acts like it is executing commands from the past (executing a previously sent series of up when the last command was down). I have also experienced strange menu navigation in the OSD when an IR command seems to reset the current menu to the top option on the screen (the whole screen blinks).
I did not experience any IR issues when I had my 976 in my office. It was only connected to two powered speakers via XLR, HDMI out to a monitor, and a coaxial digital input. There were no other remotes being used in that environment either.
I started to experience the IR issue after moving the 976 to my theater room. I added in some HDMI sources and configured them through the OSD - if there is a software bug I think it is triggered in the video input configuration menus and persists thereafter. It is also possible that it is a bug that is triggered by receiving another manufacturers IR codes as I was using my tv remote while configuring the video inputs when the IR issue started.
I hope this helps track narrow the investigation.
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Outlaw Audio Model 976 / 7700 / Ultra-X13 B&W CM9, CM Center, DS3 (side), DM303 (back) Blue Jeans Cables (XLRs, Canare 4S11 Bi-wire, HDMI) Tivo Bolt, Xbox Series X, Panasonic ub820, AppleTV 4k, LG C765P Roon, Allo Digione Signature, Sonore MicroRendu, Uptone Audio LPS-1, Peachtree Audio Nova 150 GIK Acoustics Soffit Bass Traps, 244 Panels, Monster Bass Traps, QRD7 / Polyfusor Diffusers
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#97397 - 12/25/17 01:23 AM
Re: Flakey remote?
[Re: arbitrageur]
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Deputy Gunslinger
Registered: 11/22/17
Posts: 4
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Like others I have had remote commands that are ignored (menu navigation and volume) and then when the 976 does respond to the remote button press it acts like it is executing commands from the past (executing a previously sent series of up when the last command was down). Yes! This is exactly what I experience. However, I'm wary to call it a 976 software issue due to the fact that using my 990 remote is 100% reliable. I only experience the ignored/erroneous command error using the 976 remote. The 990 remote works from anywhere in the room, even from angles approaching 90 degrees... even bouncing it off the wall behind me or pointing it at the floor behind a coffee table. It just works. The 976 remote only works reliably if pointed directly at the 976. Moving a few degrees out of alignment results in missed or incorrect codes. I have not had a remote perform this poorly in my history of AV equipment. As previously mentioned every single remote's signal strength gets checked. This happened while we were at the factory. If I have a free minute tomorrow, I will upload a quick video of the process.
Thanks for the video. Unfortunately, signal strength is only one small piece of the communications puzzle. The factory testing processes doesn't appear to verify that correct signal is sent, only that something is emitted from the remote. Similarly, it can't check the dispersion of the signal, as the test receiver only reads a single value with the remote in one position. Given that you now have multiple customers experiencing a similar problem, I feel we'd appreciate a more attentive response than "but, but... it was tested!" I'd like to help get to the bottom of this, but we could use some better guidance from the Outlaw side. For anyone keeping track: - No plasma TV in the room (DLP projector only).
- The 976 is not inside a cabinet or behind any other visual obstruction
- Batteries in the 976 remote both read 1.55-1.58 volts
- The 976 is 100% reliable using the remote from the 990
- The IR diode on the 976 remote is not obviously misaligned
- The 976 remote fails when even slightly off target (horizontally or vertically)
- Distance doesn't affect reliability, except so far as increasingly precise aim is necessary for the signal to be received
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#97398 - 12/25/17 01:32 AM
Re: Flakey remote?
[Re: J.S.]
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Desperado
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
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Can you use the 976 remote to control the 990? To me it feels like the IR receiver in the 976 is too narrowly focused or the beam transmitted from the remote is too narrow. If it is the remote the 990 will also have issues.
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Music system Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD APC H15 Power Conditioner
TV System Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv
Home Theater System Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv Harmony ONE Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects APC H15 Power Conditioner
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#97399 - 12/25/17 03:03 AM
Re: Flakey remote?
[Re: XenonMan]
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Deputy Gunslinger
Registered: 11/22/17
Posts: 4
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Can you use the 976 remote to control the 990? Excellent idea, XenonMan... time to science the s##t out of this! I wasn't super thorough, but initial tests reveal the same behavior controlling the 990 with the 976 remote. In fact, I'm tempted to say that the receiver on the 976 is a bit more forgiving. So for now, evidence points to the issue being that the 976 remote is way too tightly focused. Since there is no lens on the new remote, I'm going to guess this is entirely a property of the single protruding IR LED being used. I wonder if anyone at Outlaw would be willing to let us know the specific LED part number is? Oh... and Merry Christmas, ya'll!
Edited by J.S. (12/25/17 03:04 AM)
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#97429 - 12/27/17 12:00 PM
Re: Flakey remote?
[Re: J.S.]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 01/13/16
Posts: 77
Loc: Texas
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On another 976 Remote Control issue, I did notice that I had to push the button to change sources 2 or 3 times when switching from say, CBL/SAT to Game (TiVo to Fire TV)…like the unit did not properly read the signal from the remote. This has happened before. I am using a IR Repeater, so strength of signal should not be an issue. I sit 10 feet away from the 976, which is housed in a cabinet with a mesh screen door. The IR Receiver is mounted on the bottom of my Plasma TV next to the “Panasonic” emblem.
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Outlaw Model 976 AV Surround Processor Outlaw Model 5000 5 Channel Amplifier JBL Studio 590 Left and Right JBL Studio 520C Center 2 JBL Sub 550P Polk 265RT 3 Way Surrounds (in wall) Sony Bravia 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED TV Panasonic DP-UB820-K 4K Player Technics SL 1210 GR (2019) Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk - Phono Preamp Ortofon Bronze 2M; Ortofon Headshell;Emmeline Nighthawk Phono Pre-Amp by Ray Sammuels Schitt Loki Wire World RCA Cables Drop THX AAA 789 Headphone Amp Blue Jeans Speaker Cable Belden 10-gauge 5T00UP (Front L&R and Center) Blue Jeans Interconnects LC-1's
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#97454 - 12/29/17 12:40 PM
Re: Flakey remote?
[Re: J.S.]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Folsom CA
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I need to agree with everyone here concerning the remote. It is definitely not the 976, which operates pretty well with my Harmony Touch programed for the 975.
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Outlaw 976 Outlaw 7500 OPPO-103 Sony Bravia 52" XBR DirectV Apple TV Infinity Speakers Home Built Sub+800 WRMS Amp Blue Jeans and PPC Cables Phillips Home Theater Power Conditioner Wi-Fi "ac" connected
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#97458 - 12/29/17 03:56 PM
Re: Flakey remote?
[Re: J.S.]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 283
Loc: USA
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I've now used the 976 remote and my Harmony 750 with the 976. The harmony has much better range than the 976 remote does.
With the 976 remote, I find if I lower the aim of the remote towards the 976, it operates much better than if I'm aiming a bit higher than the display window. (Over two feet higher and it won't see the command) I seem to have the lateral range of approximately a 45° angle outward from the 976. I also seem to be able to bounce the IR off of the left side wall of my room and achieve even greater functional range. For me, this range would be sufficient to operate the 976 from any of my seats, if I wasn't using the Harmony to control all of my devices.
Even though I find I can point the Harmony in the opposite direction and still control the 976, it is still intuitive to aim towards the devices. Some of my other devices, like my converter box, I need to aim the Harmony towards it. So, yes the 976 IR sensor on the front is very good. The remote is adequate IMHO.
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Main HT <> 976 <> 7200 <> Ultra-X12 <> sapphire ST2 mkII RF/LF <> sapphire SC center sapphire ST2 mkII SBR/SBL <> sapphire SS SR/SL <> Verizon/DVR <> Vizio M70Q7 <> Oppo UDP-203 <> Amazon 4k Fire TV
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#97459 - 12/29/17 03:59 PM
Re: Flakey remote?
[Re: drueb]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 283
Loc: USA
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On another 976 Remote Control issue, I did notice that I had to push the button to change sources 2 or 3 times when switching from say, CBL/SAT to Game (TiVo to Fire TV)…like the unit did not properly read the signal from the remote. This has happened before. I am using a IR Repeater, so strength of signal should not be an issue. I sit 10 feet away from the 976, which is housed in a cabinet with a mesh screen door. The IR Receiver is mounted on the bottom of my Plasma TV next to the “Panasonic” emblem. Are you aiming a bit higher towards the 976 display? Try aiming slightly lower. See if that helps. If the 976 doesn't "see" the beginning of the IR pulse, it may interpret a different function button command.
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Main HT <> 976 <> 7200 <> Ultra-X12 <> sapphire ST2 mkII RF/LF <> sapphire SC center sapphire ST2 mkII SBR/SBL <> sapphire SS SR/SL <> Verizon/DVR <> Vizio M70Q7 <> Oppo UDP-203 <> Amazon 4k Fire TV
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#97467 - 12/30/17 01:48 PM
Re: Flakey remote?
[Re: Helson]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 01/13/16
Posts: 77
Loc: Texas
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On another 976 Remote Control issue, I did notice that I had to push the button to change sources 2 or 3 times when switching from say, CBL/SAT to Game (TiVo to Fire TV)…like the unit did not properly read the signal from the remote. This has happened before. I am using a IR Repeater, so strength of signal should not be an issue. I sit 10 feet away from the 976, which is housed in a cabinet with a mesh screen door. The IR Receiver is mounted on the bottom of my Plasma TV next to the “Panasonic” emblem. Are you aiming a bit higher towards the 976 display? Try aiming slightly lower. See if that helps. If the 976 doesn't "see" the beginning of the IR pulse, it may interpret a different function button command. Thanks. That does work...but, I wanted a higher and unobstructed central point to aim the remote. So long as I aim at the IR Sensor on the panel of my TV...all is good! It is 5 inches to the left of the Panasonic emblem, where the conduit runs down...left of the Center Channel speaker.
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Outlaw Model 976 AV Surround Processor Outlaw Model 5000 5 Channel Amplifier JBL Studio 590 Left and Right JBL Studio 520C Center 2 JBL Sub 550P Polk 265RT 3 Way Surrounds (in wall) Sony Bravia 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED TV Panasonic DP-UB820-K 4K Player Technics SL 1210 GR (2019) Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk - Phono Preamp Ortofon Bronze 2M; Ortofon Headshell;Emmeline Nighthawk Phono Pre-Amp by Ray Sammuels Schitt Loki Wire World RCA Cables Drop THX AAA 789 Headphone Amp Blue Jeans Speaker Cable Belden 10-gauge 5T00UP (Front L&R and Center) Blue Jeans Interconnects LC-1's
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