Looks like there is a snag in 976 delivery. A firmware bug popped up, or maybe import/export problems. I recall typically 4 - 8 weeks by boat from China for container cargo to shipping, transient and then delivery. Hope that is not the case, but no word can be bad. Best guess (OK, a guess), Thanksgiving.

I will wait until Peter or Ben gives us some details, rather than just making up reasons for the delay. Hopefully it is available for Black Friday.

I'd guess they definitely want to get the order form up and in place before the Black Friday sales happen. I can't imagine they'd want the holiday buying season to be handed over completely to their competitors if they can avoid it but it's comforting to know that even that pressure won't force their hand if they don't think it's ready.

990 owner here. Though it has largely been relegated to a glorified volume control and unbalanced direct in to balanced out converter (I run balanced cables to old Crown amps for rear channels). Delay and bass management have been taken over by an Oppo 103D.

I am looking to move to 4k video, and thus the Oppo 203 or 205, but using it the same way (audio format decoder, bass management, speaker delay) with it's HDMI input apparently runs into A/V sync issues. That, and it does not pass HDR10 through. It really should be relegated to an input device, in spite of it's excellent decoding capabilities.

So, I considered an HDMI 2.0b switch, followed by an HD Fury AVR Key to split off audio with HDMI 1.4 720p black into a bare bones A/V processor for decoding. Didn't even have to have fancy room correction beyond speaker delay, level, and bass management: I've been considering miniDSP's DDRC-88a for that after the decoding. (Yes, another A/D -> D/A, but that's less of an issue than it used to be.)

The Outlaw 975 was on my short list for this purpose: one HDMI in, decoded analog out). True, I'd lose DSD decoding over the Oppo that way, but if I'm so fanatical as to swear by DSD (SACD), I'd use, and still could add, an outboard DAC (like the Oppo Sonica DAC), with a good analog preamp like the Emotiva XSP-1.

My point is that I've become a fan of separating room processing from surround decoding, speaker distance and level matching, and bass management, even if it means another A/D -> D/A step. The DDRC-88a does Dirac Live and sports balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs (which meant the Outlaw 975 was a contender if I switched HDMI 2.0b video elsewhere and used an HD Fury AVR Key).

So, now I see the Outlaw 976 coming "real soon now". I was looking at the 975 and Nusource AVP-18. Seeing how Emotiva sometimes has problems after release (A/V sync), I appreciate "getting it right". The 976 would mean I could avoid an HDMI 2.0b switch (Altona JunoX), AVR key, and HD Fury Linker (about $675).

ME WANTS IT! THE PRECIOUSSSS!!

P.S. if there is any way to do surround decoding, speaker level and delay, A/V sync, and bass management out the second HDMI port with LPCM audio, that opens up a world of downstream room correction processing without an extra A/D -> D/A conversion.

It would seem that the 976 would meet all of your needs and give you the parametric EQ to play with too. Your system would be less complicated too which should give you fewer conversions.

True. I know the 976 has parametric EQ. Most modern A/V processors have some kind. And, for starters that might be fine. The DDRC-88A is not cheap: about $1000. But a large part of that is Dirac Live licensing cost.

An alternative is to decode in the Oppo (it will decode all surround formats to LPCM on the secondary HDMI 1.4 output as well as analog) and follow with a nanoAVR for level, delay, and bass management, and a nanoAVR DL for Dirac Live processing, then to an A/V preamp for DAC, volume control, and balanced output. The nanoAVRs can't handle non-LPCM surround formats for Dolby and DTS licensing issues.

But the issue here is the lack of a proper HDMI 2.0b (HDR and HLG) input in the Oppo along with reported A/V sync issues via that input. It has a great decoder and speaker management, just not for external inputs, which is a real pity. I've even considered using my existing Oppo 103D to decode via its HDMI 1.4 input (which does NOT seem to have A/V sync issues) along with an HD Fury AVR Key. The advantage is that speaker management and room correction follow digitally and the preamp becomes a glorified volume control. The combination of nanoAVR and nanoAVR DL are a bit cheaper than a DDRC-88A, paying for the AVR Key. The Oppo 103D I have, but I'd still need an extra HDMI 2.0b switch. $400.

The 976 would still be relegated to basically an HDMI 1.4 DAC and volume control but might STILL justify the price for that purpose as there is no (decent) product that does this. HDMI 7.1 audio extractors exist but tend to be poor quality. And you'd still need a volume control somewhere.

Now, if the 976 offered an AUDIO HDMI 1.4 "processing loop" using the second HDMI out and the non-HDMI 2.2b input, it would be the bomb: two nanoAVRs would fit right in. (Latency is low with them.) One can dream. I ought to patent that idea.

On Edit: Looks like the Altona switch is only 10.2 Gbps instead of 18. The Sewell Switchdeck seems like a better choice: cheaper by far and one more input.

In reading your post it certainly seems that your system is very complicated and would benefit some from a simpler setup. I am not sure why you would want to add all the other devices to complicate the HDMI chain since it is already a pretty fragile invention and sometimes doesn't like to play across multiple devices in a system. The more devices in the video path the worse the A/V sync issues become. I, like you, have a lot of older equipment that sometimes doesn't support all the newer gizmos out there and have to either accept the limits or change out some parts. At this point I have decided to stay with 1080P vice 4k and will wait until there is a driving need for the object based audio gizmos.

As for the parametric EQ on the 976, it appears to be much more adjustable than anything I have seen on most AV Processors and will allow you to customize you system to sound the way you want using REW.

XenonMan: It's not complicated at all, though I may be trying to make it so.

Right now I am using an Oppo 103D as a playback device, surround decoder, and speaker manager (bass, level, and delay), with the analog outputs driving an old Outlaw 990 that is being used as a glorified volume control and unbalanced to balanced converter (since I have long runs to my rear speakers with co-located crown amps). No processing on the 990 at all. Has worked like a champ (originally in more demanding roles, switching component video, etc.) all these years. I run an Nvidia Shield through the HDMI input of the Oppo (albeit at 1080p60) for streaming content -- the streaming apps on the Oppo are buggy as hell, not having been updated. I, for one, am glad they left them OUT of the 203/205.

Upgrading to 4k would be as simple as replacing the TV, upgrading the Oppo 103D to a 203 or 205, and the 990 to a 976.

But, here's the thing: that limits me to whatever room processing the 976 offers. Yeah, a 10 band parameteric EQ is nice, but I might want more, like Direc Live, for example. Normally, that sort of room processing is done in the A/V processor: Direct Live on Emotiva, Audessey on others, proprietary on others still. And, it adds a LOT of $$$ to the cost of the A/V processor, often with compromises in other area. The Emotiva XMC-1 is $2500, the Anthem AV-60 is $3000, etc. I'd really like to separate the room processing from the surround decoding (Dolby or DTS formats), and speaker management (bass, level, and delay). That's where the complexity comes in.

There are generally two ways to do this: after the A/V processor, with an analog connection, with something like a miniDSP DDRC-88A ($1000 for Direc Live), or before the A/V processor, completely in the digital realm (miniDSP nanoAVR for speaker management, and nanoAVR DL daisy chained for Direc Live). The nanoAVR can also do custom parametric EQ and is REW friendly in that regard. Direc Live has the advantage of offering FIR filters as well as IIR ones. There's a catch though: because they don't have Dolby or DTX licenses, the audio presented to them over HDMI (1.4, I might add) has to be LPCM. The Oppo disk players have AVR HDMI 1.4 outputs as well as TV HDMI outputs (1.4 on the 103D, 2.0b on the 203/205) that can carry DECODED LPCM audio to the AVR. So, the idea is to use an Oppo disk player BOTH as an A/V source AND as a surround format decoder, so room correction can be done BEFORE the AVR instead of after, incurring an AD->D/A step. When one does this, one should ALSO do speaker management BEFORE room correction. The Oppo can do this, but only through it's analog outputs. Then the AVR decodes LPCM audio, and does not speaker or room processing. It's a glorified volume control.

The devil here is that the Oppo 203/205 have some problems with their HDMI INPUT regarding not passing through HDR (and probably not HLG either), as well as A/V sync issues. The Oppo 103D is not reported to have the A/V sync problems on its HDMI (1.4) input (HDR and HLG not even supported).

Again, using a DDRC-88A after the 976 with an analog connection would be much simpler. It's just one more piece of equipment (and can do bass and other speaker management as well as Direc Live, though there's no reason not to let the 976 do speaker management in this case). Doing room correction BEFORE the 976 requires (a) surround decoding, (b) a nanoAVR and nanoAVR DL, as well as an HD Fury AVR Key to split HDMI 1.4 audio from HDMI 2.0b video and audio (this costs about as much as a DDRC-88A), and (c) an HDMI 2.0b switch (since we are now switching BEFORE the 976). Given the flaky HDMI 2.0 input on the Oppo 203/205 I'm seriously considering using the Oppo 103D to do audio decoding (the AVR Key can send black 720p or 1080p video on the HDMI 1.4 "audio only" port).

HDMI issues usually come down to two things: HDCP and EDID. Good switches aren't a problem, and the AVR Key and nanoAVRs don't even process the video: they just generate black or pass it on. A/V sync is usually handled where the audio is first processed. Instead of accommodating the processing delay of the display, one does that as well as any down stream "audio only" HDMI devices which usually add little to no latency (and actually make the sync job easier).

So, it comes down to whether I want to (a) settle for room correction in the 976 (a good start), (b) add a DDRC-88A after the 976 with an analog connection (easy), (c) try to do speaker management and room processing BEFORE the 976 (somewhat trickier, but about as expensive as using a DDRC-88A, given I HAVE a surround decoder in my existing Oppo 103D, and just need an HDMI 2.0b switch).

The processing steps are source(s) -> switch -> split audio and video (video to TV) -> decode surround formats -> speaker management -> room correction -> D/A.

By relegating the 976 to the last step I can change the speaker management and room correction system AT WILL.

The "normal way" of course is source(s) -> AVR(switch -> split -> decode surround formats -> speaker management -> room correction-> D/A) with the 976 playing the role of AVR, letting me only change room correction via an analog connection as an afterthought.

If I could have my dream AVR, it would allow an HDMI audio "processing loop" where speaker management and room correction could be done, with, perhaps, some basic internal, defeatable, implementation of same. I eye the second HDMI out and non-HDCP2.2 HDMI in on the 976 with much suspicion in this regard.

Am I bat sh*t crazy for thinking this way? A top notch HDMI 2.0 (maybe "a", possibly "b") AVR with serious room correction, runs around $2500 (XMC-1) to $3000 (AV-60). The 976 is $900 ($800 to me 'cause I have a 990, thanks Outlaw), $1400 to $1900 cheaper. That's significantly MORE than a DDRC-88A or a nanoAVR, nanoAVR DL, AVR Key, and HDMI 2.0b switch and a lot less flexible.

I almost think there is a market for an HDMI "A/V splitter", HDMI "video processor", HDMI "surround decoder", and HDMI "DAC", allowing any type of room correction to be added between the last two. Combining the first three might make sense, with BASIC speaker management and room correction bundled with the surround decoder, but people tend to be picky about their room correction and DACs. If you combine all of them, then PLEASE provide for an "HDMI audio processing loop" between the last two.

Fellow Outlaws:

Following the topic of this thread, we want you to rest assured that the Model 976 is very much reality.

The Outlaws checked the production process when they were there last week, and everything is moving according to schedule. We've also attached a few pictures of product after QC and being packed, and product packed and ready to ship.

A final on-site inspection is taking place this week, and presuming all is well, they’ll be on their way! Once we have confirmation on that, we’ll be able to gauge the shipping time. We will then be able to more accurately predict an arrival date. Once that is done, a few details such as incoming inspection need to be completed and then we’ll be ready to announce an availability date.









Hang on. We know it’s been a long road, but we’re almost at the finish line. We assure you that the wait will be worth it.

Hangin' on here. Get 'er done, Outlaws. These need to be under Christmas trees.