EDID is for more than graphics cards. ANY video source can make use of it. This is why you can plug your BD player into a TV and have it send 2ch PCM audio (or possibly DD to be further sent via SPDIF from the TV to a soundbar) or into an AVR and have it send 7.1 LPCM automatically.

You are correct that a TV doesn't need 7.1 ch LPCM audio but would it get it if that's the EDID it provided indicated it could accept it, or would the AVR punt and just sent 2ch audio anyway? That's why I specifically ask. I'd expect the 976 to be the same as the 975 in this regard, though the safe assumption is that only a 2ch PCM downmix would get sent to the TV.

I prefer Dirac Live because it employs FIR as well as IIR filters to better tackle impulse response. While it is true that you can't optimize both at the same time, you can chose which is more important and and improve both. Dirac Live is one way of doing this.

Now, I could strip off HDMI audio before the pre/pro, process it, and then send it to the pre/pro, but this reduces the pre/pro to a multi channel DAC and volume control. Furthermore, you have to decode bitstream formats ahead of the room processor (because they generally only accept LPCM).

It just so happens that the Oppo BD players can do this AND have an HDMI input who's audio they can decode to LPCM as well. All that would be needed is an HDMI 2.0 switch ahead of it. (2.0a for HDR and 2.0b for metadata like HLG.) But, that's rare for a BD player to do (it was intended to allow new formats to be played on legacy 7.1 pre/pros).

But the 976 has a perfectly good HDMI switch which is why I am interested to see if I can get between the switched and decoded HDMI audio and the DAC and volume control in the digital domain.

Well, I think I might settle for Dirac Live with a DDRC-88A with analog interfaces AFTER the pre/pro. Reviews suggest the extra A/D D/A step is inaudible and this is the only possible path to Atmos in the future.


It eliminates the need for a separate HDMI switch and trying to use the pre/pro in a "weird" way as well as the need for a separate bitstream audio decoder with LPCM output.

That said, I really do wish pre/pros would support a digital processing loop in some manner.

Not sure where you are getting your information but I have the 205 and it does support Dolby Vision and so does the 203. I also have no issues with my hdmi input.

Also, where is this combo pricing you are talking about with the 203?

The audio formats I mention are being sent from the source device, because the pre-pro's EDID is reporting to the source device that it is capable of decoding these formats.
As far as I know, there is no audio being sent from the HDMI out to the TV, unless CEC settings are engaged to allow this.(ex. HDMI audio out to TV, or HDMI pass-thru) Then, it would be the TV's EDID that is read by the source device. For most TV's, this will be 2 channel PCM.

[spoiler][/spoiler]Right. But what if the "TV" were another downstream "AVR". Could decoded 7.1 LPCM be sent? Recent research suggests no (2ch PCM) or whatever the source sends that the TV says it can handle.

mdanderson: recent email with Oppo suggests that they have, indeed, solved the DV and HDMI input sync issues, yes. I got my data from early reports.

Rene, I think you will have to buy a 976 and do the testing in your system to get any definitive answers. I am pretty sure you are out beyond what most of the Outlaws are trying to do with their systems. If you are interested in the 976, you may find that the PEQ and REW will allow you to tweek your system without needing Dirac Live. REW is a pretty extensive system that should allow you to do anything you want for each channel of your system. Then you can decide whether you need additional gear to accomplish your goals. One big advantage would be that Outlaw customer service will be able to help some and the forums in the Saloon will have some additional input. There are several Outlaws which are anticipating the use of REW and PEQ to correct their rooms.

REW and PEQ employ IIR filters. They can't correct speaker impulse response the way FIR filtering can in Dirac Live.

That said, they are an amazing option for room frequency response at this price point, no argument.

The other aspect I am struggling with is whether I care about, or am likely to care about Atmos. Not in a living room arrangement, probably, but if I ever build a theatre, I might want to go 7.2.4. The only Dirac Live options for Atmos are either in the Pre/Pro or in the analog domain with a pair of DDRC-88As ($2000) with balanced analog I/O and a A/D D/A step. But, Atmos gets us out of 976 territory and I am nowhere ready to build a theatre.

I too am going to wait on the object based codecs until I see them become mainstream. One of the questions I have is how a room correction scheme will deal with a sound field specifically designed to place sounds where speakers don't necessarily exist. I would think that if the engineers place a sound directly in front of the screen they would have to employ some sort of "phantom" effect to get it there. Since the specs don't actually say exactly where to set your overhead speakers I would think there will be some wiggle room where the sound comes from. Of course this could be affected with how the speaker setup algorithm sets distance and delays.

I don't think the issue of phantom speakers matters in an Atmos setup: so long as the real speakers perform well, positioning tricks using volume, phase, and delay should work as expected. Of course, you could not measure and correct a system like that based on phantom speakers.

This actually comes up in non-Atmos settings where one has multiple subwoofers. The problem is that one is trying to apply room correction to the LFE channel, and all one has to measure are the real subwoofers. It also means that one should do bass management before room correction. Most people use multiple subs to smooth out the room response, and then correct them as a single subwoofer. Of course, this only works from points equidistant from each subwoofer unless additional delay management has been applied (say with a DDRC-88A for 7.1 and another miniDSP 2x4 applying delay management between subs after the DDRC-88A. Alternately, a single DDRC-88A can manage 5.3 setups (L, C, R, LS, RS, and three subwoofers, oftern used in LFE plus stereo sub arrangements). There are successful 16 channel Dirac Live room correction setups using a pair of DDRC-88As after the pre/pre for Dolby Atmos. Check out the application notes on the miniDSP website (www.minidsp.com).

But, the big thing with Atmos is that the only decoders for it are licensed in (rather expensive) A/V preamps and receivers, and sources like BD players have to have their HDMI outputs set to bitstream instead of LPCM. That means no chance to do room correction with a nanoAVR HD or nanoAVR DL in the digital domain, except on the LPCM decoded TrueHD source as 7.1. (Atmos adds metadata to a TrueHD encoding so it can play on non-Atmos setups).

Finally, the big "secret" is that supposedly a lot of Atmos content, at least initially, is supposedly pre-rendered as to speaker location.

I've decided my living room, where I would be doing critical music listening WON'T have an Atmos setup. I'll stick to 7.2 at most, and will probably do Dirac Live processing and bass management with a nanoAVR HD (bass management, distance, and level) and nanoAVR DL (Dirac Live). It's more "audio friendly" in that it is done in the digital domain. I'll leave the possible use of multiple DDRC-88As to a future separate Atmos theatre.