Why not spend the $99 and get the full blown Dirac Live XMC-1

Why not just use the main output and run it through your black box setup and bring the audio in to the analog channels and use the other HDMI for video only? Or is it expected that an HDMI output with "watered down" audio formats also gimps the video quality? And if you have a second HDMI output but it hobbles the audio and video quality, what's the point in having it?

The XMC-1 costs far more than the 976, two nanoAVS (HD and DL), and an HDMI 2.0b switch. And, it's not so much a desire for Dirac Live, as it is for OUTBOARD room correction, that may change in the future.

As for "hobbled" HDMI outputs, this is normal for the audio going to a TV and the video for the "audio" or Zone 2 HDMI output.

The Oppo SPECIFICALLY has a secondary HDMI output that can be configured to mirror the main one OR send 720p or 1080p black over HDMI 1.4 with LPCM decoded audio (decoding DTS and Dolby in the player). I was hoping the 976 might be similarly configured.

But, it is increasingly becoming infeasable: even if the 976 provided LPCM audio out it's secondary (or primary) HDMI output, I'd need an HDMI DAC to bring the audio back into the 976 via 7.1ch analog inputs. They exist, but are of questionable audio quality. The 976 is actually the cheapest option to go from 7.1ch LPCM audio over HDMI to balanced analog audio out with volume control. It just means I'll have to use an external HDMI 2.0b switch. And, they aren't expensive.

It really is a pity that pre/pros don't exist with HDMI audio out/in processor loops after the HDMI switch and audio decoder.

I tend to agree that even among the most "tech head" type gear driven users the scenario described is too much of an edge case -- it is not realistic to expect a "chain" of equipment to pass all the info needed. These kinds of scenarios are part of the reason that there are enhancements to ARC (that are still not really fully production ready even in the "latest and greatest" gear from big firms like Marantz/ Denon...).

The various "specialty electronics firms" that supply everybody from churches to major AV fitters for conferences and such are increasingly forced to come up with clever ways to work around the limitations of various implementations of anti-piracy in the specs; anybody trying to incorporate such "features" in actual consumer grade gear would probably fail the required certifications...

ARC is really only useful when you switch HDMI sources in the TV, or actually use the TV tuner.

What bothers me is the "kitchen sink" approach to A/V pre/pros, with the latest "gadget" being room correction. All of these add to the expense (The Emotiva XMC-1 is $2500). What happens when better room correction becomes available? Ditch the whole pre/pro that was expensive to begin with? Hope for a firmware upgrade?

Oppo "tries" to have some preamp features (HDMI input, bass, level, and distance management, as well as Dolby and DTS to LPCM decoding) in the BD player: it has everything but an HDMI switch. But, the volume control is not really designed to be used in lieu of a preamp (though people have used it that way), but rather as a trim control close to max. Decoded 7.1ch LPCM with 1080p black on an "audio" HDMI interface is a cool thing: you can do all sorts of downstream audio processing with it before needing a DAC and volume control. It's a pity pre/pros don't take the same approach for a digital processing loop: you HAVE 7.1ch LPCM in the box. You HAVE extra HDMI inputs. How hard is it to send full 7.1ch LPCM out the secondary HDMI output, and accept 7.1ch LPCM audio for the main output, or at least the DAC and analog outputs from a second source?

Would this just be a matter of firmware?

Yeah, it's a "geek" mode. But geez: you could drop PEQ out of the device, and make the rest of it real bare bones that way, as far as audio processing goes.

I'm resigned to doing it ahead of the 976 and just using it as an HDMI DAC and volume control. As I wrote, it's actually the CHEAPEST HDMI audio DAC option out there, even if none of it's other features get used. It just bugs me that its got a perfectly good HDMI switch that would go unused.

On Edit: I stand corrected. The Essense Evolve II-4k HDMI DAC fits the bill at $299, but is a pure DAC with no volume control and unbalanced outputs. Still: a very nice product at the price. Now, if one could score a Parasound Halo P7 analog preamp (about $1600 USED), that would be a killer combination.

Again: everywhere I look, just using the 976 as a DAC and volume control with balanced out is cheaper than any other alternative. A used Nuforce MCP-18 might do the trick, but TRY FINDING ONE. That alone says a lot for the 976 value proposition.

If you want bare bones get the 975. The PEQ and REW are a tweakers dream and when used as room correction it will always be available for re-tweaking if you change something. But in reality, how many of re-do our systems such that we have to re-do room correction so frequently. I think you passed the value point of no return awhile back especially if you don't have a dedicated room to really tweak.

Someone help me out here. Didn't Outlaw mention they are working with some company that was making a device to split the video from the audio so that 4K video could be sent to a display but the audio could still be sent to "older" equipment? I tried finding the post but was unsuccessful.

This might fit the bill for hotroding (seems I invented a new word) a custom audio processing solution. However I'd be concerned about lining up the audio and video after separate processing chains.

My personal preference is minimalistic (another new word!) especially when going back and forth between digital and analog domains.

Alas the 975 does not have balanced outputs. I think the 976 is a great value proposition even if I use it as a dac and volume control.

PEQ will not correct for a speaker's impulse response. Dirac Live will.

An alternative is an Essense Evolve II-4k HDMI 7.1ch DAC and Parasound Halo P7 preamp, but then you're talking $2300 new and around $1900 used for JUST a 7.1 HDMI DAC and analog preamp, DTS and Dolby decoding having to be done elsewhere. Still, people have paired Oppo players and the P7 to great success, with out room correction beyond bass, level, and delay management in the Oppo.

With that, you'd have to add a nanoAVR HD and nanoAVR DL (or nanoAVR HDA with the $300 DL upgrade and forgo the Evolve DAC) at a cost of $800, for a total of $3100, not counting an HDMI 2.0b switch. But, this is only $600 more than an Emotiva XMC-1 with FAR better audio quality.

On edit: Hmm, the nanoAVR HDA used AKM AK4440 DACs and the Evolve II 4k uses Cirrus DACs. IIRC, Outlaw likes to use Cirrus DACs. Probably be OK with the DACs in the Outlaw 976, though it would be fun to A/B a nanoAVR HDA with DL upgrade through the analog in section of the 976 against the HDMI out of the nanoAVR through an HDMI input.

The problem with any sort of "blocks of functionality" approach or even "field up-gradable" type design is that costs end up spiraling AND the base of potential users / buyers SHRINKS. The fact is even really nicely made solutions from firms like NAD carry costs for the "cards" alone that greatly exceed the cost of entire AV receivers from other makers. https://www.crutchfield.com/fg_370450_FFBrand%7cNAD/NAD-Add-on-Modules.html vs https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX1300/Denon-AVR-X1300W.html

It is not a stretch to suggest that these sorts of issues are not limited to smaller manufacturers but are also seen when one looks at the product offered by the "big guys" too -- especially when considering things that are a bit "mainstream" compared to generic AV receivers it becomes apparent that design & component costs tend to create a "floor price" -- compare what Yamaha charges for something like the two channel integrated amp / DAC / streamer: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha-musiccast-wxc-50-streaming-media-player-dark-silver/5688016.p

These sorts of market realities have certainly driven the collapse of Pioneer's home audio business, and forced many mergers, especially between firms like Marantz and Denon that otherwise had extreme overlap in their offerings.

The extreme flip-side shows that there has been an explosion of firms offering extremely "no frills" alternative devices that can be used as either stand-alone products with minimally "open" digital audio sources or turned into a chain of Rube Goldberg type solutions. It is not realistic to expect Outlaw, Emotiva, or any other firm that has had success as a value-oriented option for "normal" AV users to compete with such things -- https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=dac&sitesearch=true

Well, now we get into a philosophical discussion. I initially wanted to know if it was likely that the 976 would have characteristics that would allow me to insert an external, digital, audio processing loop, so I could add things like Dirac Live. It would appear it does not. All solutions require the 976 to be reduced to the role of an HDMI DAC, volume control, and balanced audio driver.

Guess what?

It's a STEAL at $899 for those functions, compared to alternatives.

It's a STEAL at $899 if it just served as a 7.1 ch analog preamp with balanced outputs.

"Cheap" alternatives for such "pure" preamps run into $1k - $2k NEW (Parasound Halo P7) and used (Krell HTS, about 15 years old now). They would both require an HDMI DAC (Essense Evolve II-4k at $299 if one likes ESS Sabre PRO DAC chips).

Granted they probably have better analog stages, but there IS NO 7.1ch analog preamp at the 976's price, regardless of quality, and I don't think the 976 will be all that shoddy.

So, reov8lr is right: niche products are expensive.

But here's the thing: it would not COST Outlaw much to add such "digital audio processor loop" functionality: basically a full 2x2 matrix switch for HDMI sources, switchible to HDMI 1.4 if you didn't want to handle 4k video). Hardware-wise, it would use exactly the same back panel ports, and would be A NICE FEATURE IN IT'S OWN RIGHT: a full second zone home theatre, if you had an A/V preamp there. Most Zone2 A/V preamps aren't matrix switched, or carry full audio: they're designed for a TV in a second room, with stereo audio.

Yeah, I know: every dime turns unto a dollar between cost and retail price. Still.

I predict full blown 2x2 matrix switchers will become a "thing" in A/C pre/pro's in the future.

But, after all my research, the take away is this: the 976 is priced for a song, even it one want's to use very little of it's capability.