Waiting so long for the Outlaw Phoenix (™ XenonMan) to rise from the ashes has me looking at other options to upgrade my ancient HK receiver. There are some nice deals on last year receiver models that have pre-outs from Denon, Onkyo, and Yamaha. I have been waiting in the Saloon for so long that I think the bar has run dry and it's finally time to mosey on down the road to quench my thirst elsewhere...

While I too am concerned that this effort seems to be dragging on, and that generally is not a sign that things are progressing all that well, I well recall the blown timelines of others in similar market space. Simply put, this remains a very tiny part of a market that is not exactly "booming" as flat / declining consumer spending for non-essentials is really hurting this segment.

Here is a thread that highlights some of the other options -- http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?20448-Current-best-pre-pros-under-4K

Thanks for the link. I found those same models, except for the Emotiva, when doing some research when I thought my 990 was about to die. In addition, the considerable inconvenience of no HDMI in the 990 is starting to make the folks in my household restless. Gotta say though a recent Outlaw sale had their 7-channel 200 watt balanced amp made by ATI paired with the Marantz 7702MKII for the same price as the Anthem AVM-60 alone. While my 5-channel ATI is doing fine it was tempting, for a brief moment, to upgrade my pre/pro and get a new amp to boot. The decision to continue waiting for a more full featured Outlaw pre/pro may be made for me if the 990 quits in the near future or there is too much clamoring for Apple TV, game consoles and an upgraded cable box.

YO!!! Outlaws, anyone awake in there? It has been over a year and a half since the last update. What's happening? Any hot-dog AVPs (or just one) running loose in Outlaw-land and just waiting to (jump the fence and) be set free? While the most recent product line fillers were interesting, we need the UHD video/9.2/5.1.4 signal processing/switching hot box (that taunts our dreams - yeah, I know, not necessarily a good thing - and) to restore our faith in electrons. What gives? You got anything?

And just like an animal that might jump the fence, it has no name. It supposedly offers all the features any audio/videophile might want but I fear the industry is changing faster than Outlaw can keep up. Between 3D/Atmos/DTS-x/HDCP2.2/UHDTV/HDR displays/HDMI2.0 and all the various streaming apps and who knows what else, it is almost impossible for a smaller company to create a processor that encompasses all of these, plus, be backwards compatible with at least a portion of what has come before. I see a small company like Outlaw being unable to keep up with the changes in real time and unwilling to bring a device to market that doesn't measure up to their standards. I hope that Outlaw brings the Phoenix to market soon with whatever feature set it provides and then quickly launches a receiver based on the processor with whatever tech comes up in the interim. Outlaw, get it out there or cancel it and give up trying to bring one to market. Focus on Amps, Subwoofers and customer service which is what you do best.

Xenon:

On one level I understand what you are saying but the fact is that making changes to firmware is not really any easier for the "big guys" than it is for the little guys. It really comes down to the firms that make the chips failing to put sufficient information out regarding how to actually make all the features work. Some of that is due to wrong documentation, others suffer from failing to actually consider how much the real world operation of these features work when trying to support hundred or thousands of options. The industry has far too few people willing to take on the hard work of increasing the ease of programming their devices. Sadly lots of projects from firms like Yamaha, Sony and Bose get delayed or cancel too, and the reason often is that the development costs outstrip any potential revenue that the firms can anticipate in a sector that increasingly has very little room for anything but the "highest end" electronics.

From the info that Peter T shares it is likely that whatever issues are still to be tackled are not so severe as to doom the whole firm; at least his other ventures continue to release new products, which is something that once high flying firms only wish they could do -- http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Atlant...-Speakers.shtml vs http://www.cepro.com/article/kaleidescape_is_shutting_down_interview_with_ceo_cheena_srinivasan

The biggest downside to being a small company like Outlaw is that while they are developing a new processor they are not selling any other models. Companys like Yamaha , Onkyo, and others can weather a product which doesn't meet all of the benchmarks. Outlaw can't do that and stay in the market. If their one and only processor doesn't make it--KABOOM!

OUTLAWS!!!! OUTLAWS!! OUTLAWS! Throw us a bone! You got anything?

Are there really any Outlaws out there who are seriously waiting (literally) for years for Outlaw to come up with a new processor? I'm kind of curious as to the rationale of those who are ready to go for some new gear but are willing to forestall their move indefinitely, absent any word from Outlaw as to when they might actually produce something. I am a big time Outlaw fan,at various times I have owned a 1070, a 950, a 990, a 755, a couple of 200's, even an ICBM-1, but when I was ready to move into HDMI from the 990 (which I loved, BTW) a few years of false starts convinced me to look elsewhere. I'm currently running a Marantz 7701 and other than the usual upgrade itch, I'm really pleased with it and am glad that I didn't wait. Again, this isn't an Outlaw slam post by ANY means, I'm just wondering how long folks are willing to wait. Might be an interesting discussion, or it might be just more teeth-gnashing.

For myself I have no plans on upgrading soon but I am very interested in the Phoenix processor. If it comes in reasonably priced it could be my next processor. I am waiting until the market stabilizes a little from all the new codecs and video options. I didn't buy into 3D and don't believe UHD is going to be a big improvement since I sit 10-12 feet from my display anyway. Faster screens with no motion blur are what I am looking for. The object codecs are interesting but I am also not buying the need for special speakers for overhead sounds. For my part, IF and WHEN these things become mainstream with source material I may get into upgrading. Even then, I will outfit a set of cheap speakers with some mounting flanges and use those overhead.