Well I suppose it maybe kinda would be nice to think that you can sorta help dish out karma to "big bad bully" but I really doubt that even the most evil "Snidely K. Whiplash" of audio company execs really wants to see Outlaw or any other competitor driven into the grave. Fact is that competitor felt threatened and decided to exercise its competitive muscle. I also feel that had Outlaw had more resources at their disposal to offer the partner a really huge incentive to spin off the project that would have shifted the game considerably. Imagine if you were say working to source equipment for a Best Buy "house brand" and you could tell the partner that they'd be building stuff to be in hundreds of national bricks and mortar stores? (or maybe that is exactly what is brewing -- a revitalized Radio Shack or Magnolia plan to offer boutique quality seperates, naw too way out there...)

Outlaw undoubtedly entered into an agreement with the partner at a time when the competitive landscape was very different.

I hope that Outlaw can modify their practices and soon deliver innovative products with good value. The cat only has so many lives...

I do not particularly wish the "bully" competitor any ill effects either, there are frankly too few good choices in the upper tier of AV performance and if this was something that any firm felt they had to do to survive I really fear for choices shrinking sooner rather than expanding...

Interesting theories and speculation, but I think we will never know the whole truth.

I vividly recall the "glory days" of two channel transistorized audio when Radio Shack, Layfette Radio, Playback, Heathkit, and other regional chains had gloriously powerful house brand receivers made in Japan that really gave the big guys a run for their money...

Well, well...theories and speculation. I just want it leaked as to who the UNETHICAL customer is. And, it's not being too agressive to spread the call for a boycott over the internet. Roll over and let the high volume, mass market (yes, the Harmon group IS mass market) companies take all the business? What have we become? Never mind, look at the state of our political system. I withdraw my question.

I myself am deeply saddened by the way the 978 went. I do feel very sorry for the company. At this point I am not going to replace my AVR but will wait a bit to see how things play out for the future. I will probably add a pair of 2200s to my 7500 for that Outlaw 7.1 total power. I agree with you Hank in that I would love to know who this UNETHICAL customer is. And yes the Harmon group is mass market...I agree. I just want good quality without breaking the bank. I was thinking of the upcoming Marantz AV7007 but are THEY the culprit?

Sorry Scott to hear this. I support your company nontheless. Yours is an outside the box company.

So, are you buying in to my "Boycott Everyone" philospophy now? OK I know it's a knee jerk overreaction to a situation that really pisses me off.

What we really need is that inside source who reamins nameless because he isn't authorized to speak on this topic. I have to believe that the industry is small enough that most/all the insiders already know who has done what to whom.

So who lives in Mass who needs their prepro repaired and can, oh, maybe take the service guys out for lunch or a beer or two after work?

While I would also like to know the culprit, it doesn't really matter. It's water under the bridge and I remain skeptical that the 978 would have even recouped development costs given how late and how far behind the feature curve it would have been upon release.

Time to move on.

Best,

What does it matter to you whether Outlaw recouped development costs or not? I don't get that. What I still want in a Prepro has nothing to do with the latest bells and whisles, if that's what you want say hello to Onkyo or Denon.

Don't you think the actual out of pocket development costs must have been rather modest? I mean if the tale as told is to be believed, and they spent much more than even $100k US don't you think they would have had to get something back from the "manufacturing partner"??? I suspect the low cost of development was (back when the deal was originally struck...) VERY appealing to the interests of Outlaw to keep the product affordable AND not jeopardize the health of Outlaw. As the competitive sands shifted and the manufacturing partner was pressure by "another NA based" firm the lack of real "skin in the game" made if relatively easy for the manufacturing partner to accede to the demands of the other NA based firm...

Had Outlaw handed over millions I believe a) they would have likely not been pushed to the curb b) if that happened Outlaw would be retaining legal counsel in the home country of the competitor NA firm to seek damages in a court of finite jurisdiction c) the 978 would have had to be priced far more than the estimated $1500-1800 dollars ... If Outlaw could make even 20% profit after overhead I suspect the "R&D" bill was very low.

Of course to those skeptical of everything Outlaw has said or done I suspect there is a more sinister scenario.

Interesting that Outlaw is having another Chinese company build their entry level pre/pro. Perhaps the relationship with the 978 builder has been rocky for some time? Perhaps the 978 builder was upset they did not get the contract for the entry level unit?