The Marantz 8801's are showing up used and in mint condition on Audiogon, at prices in the $2300-$2400 range. So apparently, these processors are not living up to the hype....at least for some people. Also, the ground loop issues with the AV7005, are the exception rather than the rule. They seem to be occuring only with "non Marantz" amplifiers. So this issue is not a problem that is only exclusive to Outlaw amps.