The OSB-1 Outlaw H-PAS Sound Bar:

Bass response is -3dB @47 Hz (WITHOUT A SUBWOOFER)!

• Operates in 2, 3, or 5-channel mode
• Includes Dolby and DTS decoding
• Speech enhancement circuitry

Head on Perspective Large


Angle Perspective

H-PAS in a soundbar? Cool. This would be great for our office conference room or my parents' den. At 47Hz by itself, that makes for some interesting ideas. I recall Peter saying something about an H-PAS soundbar a year or so ago.

Been waiting for this. Can't wait till the price and complete specs are available.

Is the angle perspective upside down on purpose?

The sound bar isn't upside down (note where the logo is in both pictures) - the control unit just moved. Could be to allow for mounting above or below a wall-mounted flat screen display.

I can confirm Gonk's observation.

The soundbar is designed to be used in either orientation. For wall mounting most will want the control dome on the bottom. For cabinet mounting the dome should be oriented to be on the top of the bar. The display and right/left channel configuration can easily be changed by holding down the volume up and down buttons simultaneously for two seconds. Everything then electronically "flips". In addition an alternate silk screen label is provided.

Peter

OK that makes sense now.

I assume that with the OP1 having Dolby and DTS, you do not need a separate receiver, that you connect your source appliances to your HDTV and then connect the TV's HDMI output the OSB-1, with volume and the like being handled by the TV remote, is that correct?

If so this sounds like great setup for bedrooms.

We are getting a bit ahead of ourselves here before our "official" announcement but I wanted you to know that the unit does not have HDMI-in, but it does have three digital inputs: (two optical and one coax) and analog inputs as well. The OSB-1 can be wired to your TV or to any of your source products (such as the optical out of a cable box.)

If you have a remote control that accepts codes for all brands of AV receivers we have included a code you can use that will drive the volume and other features.

To address your observation,in many homes "subwoofer" and "bedroom" are not uttered the same sentence so the OSB-1 can be an ideal solution. We lived with a prototype in our bedroom for three weeks and we can't wait to set up the production unit.

Peter

I assume the OSB-1 will accept decoded digital audio from the newer codecs since it won't be decoding them.

With coaxial and optical inputs, the options are limited to DD bitstream, DTS bitstream, and PCM stereo - which, of course, works for just about everything except Blu-ray. Of course, without HDMI switching to allow the video to pass through, the only sources that could feed audio to the soundbar using HDMI and still get video to the display would be a handful of dual-HDMI Blu-ray players. Such players are rare, even more rare than BD players with analog outputs. We need more specs before we fully pin down this unit's potential.

To further clariy Gonk's comment,with Blu-Rays all soundtracks can also be decoded in Dolby 5.1 or DTS 5.1 streams using the accompanying digital outs (optical or coax) on the players.
Every single demo at trade shows has been conducted exclusively with Blu-Rays due to the superior picture available and delivering the decoded 5.1 sound is no problem at all.

Peter

So, if I got that right the newer codecs which primarily go through HDMI will not be available for this soundbar to output, but the older 5.1 tracks will work. Seems like it should have an HDMI input for the audio side to allow use of the new stuff or is the difference to a soundbar just not enough to justify the cost of using HDMI?

Can we get a picture of the back and does it have a subwoofer connection?

Dolby Digital +, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution, DTS-HD Master Audio, multichannel PCM, and DSD (all formats that are restricted almost exclusively to Blu-ray Disc, with a few lesser-known exceptions like DVD-Audio, SACD, and some DD+ streaming options like Vudu) cannot be carried over optical or coaxial. For digital delivery, they rely on HDMI. The problem is that HDMI also carries the video signal. Therefore, the only way to have a useful HDMI input is to also have an HDMI output (unless you assume it will only be used with players that offer dedicated HDMI audio outputs, which limits you to a handful of higher-end players like the OPPO BDP-93 or BDP-95 - units that are not routinely paired with soundbars). Once you have an HDMI input and output, you have to figure out how it will integrate with multiple sources and a display. You also need a lot of processing power to decode the lossless formats. You could support multichannel PCM only and rely on the source player(s) to decode for you, but that's going to be a source of tremendous confusion for consumers - it's not a graceful solution.

With the soundbar providing the audio processing, amplification, and speakers, you're moving into a territory where the lossy core tracks on Blu-ray (which are part of the standard) are actually a good fit. These core tracks use Dolby Digital or DTS at the highest bit rate the formats support, which has led more than a few people to suggest that the gap between the lossy core tracks and the lossless main tracks is narrower than people normally assume. And for everything that isn't Blu-ray, optical and coaxial offers the same audio options as HDMI would.

So in a theoretical bedroom, with a TV, dvr cable box (optical out), dvd player (optical out) and a ruku (for netfix), assuming analog inputs on the OP1 means more than one, I could hook up everything and not need a separate receiver.

With two optical inputs, a coaxial input, and at least one analog audio input, you could have a cable box, disc player (DVD or BD), and Roku all hooked straight to the soundbar and still have one digital input free. If you wanted to tie in the TV's over-the-air tuner, that digital input could be used for the TV. If there is more than one analog input, you could use that too - but I'd probably use digital if I used anything at all. The soundbar's DAC will likely be better than the DAC you find in a typical TV.

Sounds good, I wonder how much and when.

Same here. The topic does say "Coming soon to a home like yours..." Just wonder how soon. Hopefully by Christmas times

Let's just say a lot sooner than Christmas

Peter

Made my day..made my day Peter.

I got the email stating the OSB-1 is now available. It costs a bit more than I had expected but still very tempting. Decision.. decision...

Hifihunter,

That is why we have a free 30-day trial.

In any event, supplies are limited due to a shortage of the DSP/control chip. The Atlantic version is oversold and several distributors were only partially shipped. That shortage also includes the Outlaw version. We are accepting orders on a date/time basis. Need we say more?

Peter


P.S. We expect a rave review on this product from a well-known industry magazine will be uploaded within the next week or so.

Peter

Peter,

It was not my intention at all to say the OSB-1 is overpriced. I hope I didn't give anyone that impression. I thought I read somewhere that it the price point would be lower. But that was a while back. Another fine example that one cannot trust everything that's said on the internet :> What you stated here is fair. I look forward to getting one in my home soon.

Not a flame - but how does it compare to Yamaha offerings? Most of these do offer HDMI passhtrough, however the cheaper ones do have two piece units as opposed to one piece units and one piece Yamaha units are quite more expensive.

The main problem is that because of damn copy protection, if you feed HDMI signal into TV, the optical out of the TV will always output 2.0 audio only so the only way to get surround out of the soundbar is to hook up separate optical in from Blu-Ray player which is annoying.

Also, I must say that I think this is a good move for Outlaw.

The market for high end audio is very flat, I think, most people want small portable audio that sounds good - iPhone docks, bluetooth speakers, soundbars, this kind of stuff and I think that outlaw would be the kind of boutique brand that may attract your average iPhone accessory buyer when they want to upgrade to something "high end". Heck, remember, Apple owners spend more money and that's a fact.

Would love to see something like Zeppelin Air from outlaw.

Yet another reason why having the HDMI connections on the soundbar isn't necessarily such a great deal.

?

If you have HDMI on soundbar then you feed HDMI signal into soundbar, soundbar outputs audio and passes video into the TV. Same as you feed HDMI signal through your receiver to your TV or projector.

H-Pas technology has now been successfully implemented in the development of tower speakers, bookshelf speakers and a sound bar. Will we see the development of an H-Pas subwoofer? Does it even make sense? Is it feasible? Would it sell?

If we look at the current trend in subwoofer construction and direction, there appears to be an appetite for sub 20Hz performance with output to match. The problem(for some) is that such a product requires a large high performance driver and a large enclosure. HSU, Rythmik and SVS are good examples with what they have brought to market in the last couple of years. However, not everyone has the real estate for such a large enclosure and others may just not want one. This is particularly troubling for those who require/want dual subs for their home theater.

Does H-Pas provide a solution? Can we develop an H-Pas subwoofer with a 10 inch or 12 inch driver, that can deliver sub 20 Hz performance with great output that will rival or surpass the large 15 inch ported subs that are being sold today? Does the H-Pas enclosure design make this a moot point because of it's structure that it will require the same size or larger foot print? Or can it be done with the foot print of a 12 inch sealed sub but obviously require more height? I don't believe that the height is an issue that causes some to balk, I believe that it is the foot print that creates the apprehension.

At $799 the OSB-1 is a little too expensive for my uses. The Zeppelin mentioned above is also pricey for what you get. The OSB-1 would make a good iPod output device. For those with limited space it makes sense. Combined with an OWA and an M-8 it would do wonders for an apartment setup.

Is this in competition with ZVOX? Why should I, as a general consumer rather than an outlaw enthusiast, purchase this product? ZVOX has reported lower bass range and is cheaper, or am I missing something in the specs comparison?

ZVOX has no digital audio input just stereo analog and the review I read kinda skirted around whether it could process anything. It would seem that it just becomes an extension of your TV speakers. You may accomplish the same thing with a set of computer speakers with a sub for $50.

45 hz from a 4 inch subwoofer is a stretch. I would be surprised if it performed that well with actual measurements instead of just claims. The review I read on the OSB-1 actually measured it to 47 HZ.

Specs are a good starting point for your evaluation of which product to purchase but the acid test is how the unit sounds in your setup. Try them both and if there's not enough improvment in sound quality to justify the additional cost go with the less expensive equipment. I noticed ZVOX has a 30 day home trial, same as Outlaw, although you may be out the shipping cost of the unit you don't keep.

If you do the evaluation please post your impressions. I'd be interested in hearing them.

ZVOX 220 has coax and optical digital inputs.

I was looking at the 430 and 440. Thanks.

HI Gang: Just wondering if anyone has bought and received their sound-bar and are going to offer up any suggestions. What I have read about the H-Pas technology has been very good-plus.

So did anyone recieve the OSB-1?

I just ordered one to go with a new flatscreen

Remind me of what the attraction is supposed to be? I thought us outlaws were fledgling audiophile types. How are ya going to get those fancy BluRay soundtracks to work without an HDMI input?

Best,

The attraction for me is for normal TV viewing without turning on the HT system, for that I have the 990/7075/ LFM-1 plus

Lee

I understand disagreeing with Outlaw's low-end processor strategy and build in China mentality (and have often agreed with you on those points). However, being deliberately difficult for what is clearly intended to be primarily a second or third TV solution does not become you.

Hi, just noticed this thread and thought I'd weigh in on the HDMI/BluRay issue. I do all the soundbar measurements for Sound+Vision and I just reviewed the Atlantic PowerBar 235. (I think that's going to be in the December issue but I'm not sure.)

HDMI would have a sonic advantage only if your soundbar offers DTS-HD Master and Dolby TrueHD. The only soundbar I've tested so far that offers those formats is the Definitive Technology SoloCinema XTR, and that costs $1,999.

The improvements you get by going from DD or DTS to one of the lossless formats are usually pretty subtle even on a good 5.1 system, and would probably be very hard to hear on a 2.0 soundbar.

If you wanted to put more money into the PowerBar 235/Outlaw OSB-1 to improve the sound quality, you'd be better off IMO by putting in a more refined passive xover, or biamping and doing digital xover/EQ, or beefing up the woofers and amps even more, or adding center-channel drivers.

HDMI can be a great convenience feature thanks to ARC/CEC, but from a sound quality standpoint I don't believe it's important in a soundbar, unless maybe you start to get into a very expensive and sophisticated soundbar.

And.......

Can't spill the beans! You'll have to wait for the review to appear. I will tell you this much, though: 48 Hz.

Damn! Brent. You mean we missed by one Hertz!

Check the instruments,the mics and the ground itself!

Round up all the usual suspects!

Peter

Was I being deliberately difficult? It wasn't my intention. Having an HDMI input and the ability to decode BluRay content seems like it ought to be features that most sensible folks would want....even for a second or third TV application.

BluRay was launched 6 years ago...just sayin'...

And THIS was the sort of answer I was after.

Best,

Hey Gang:
The best review that I have found on the Atlantic Technology H-pas 235 can be read at www.hometheater.com/category/sound bar reviews. It gives a excellent ratings in virtually every category.

Hope this helps anyone making a decision to pull the trigger as I know I will be for a Christmas gift for myself.

Best Regards
RangeRider

Peter, you are WAY too conservative in stating your Marketing Hertz. In my world of electronic projectors, there's Marketing lumens and there's actual ANSI lumens. 10% to 40% variance. Go for it, and claim 40 Hertz
On a serious note, members: I listened to Peter's H-pas demo in Vegas, and like the other attendees, was amazed at how those small drivers loaded the demo room with serious bass!

Is anyone here going to buy one so we can get a owner review ?

I have been using this for about a week and it does exactly what I wanted it to do. I bought it so that I wouldn't have to listen to the TV speakers on a flat screen.
We replaced our Entertainment center and aging rear projection LCD TV with a wall mounted 60".
The "console that we liked is only 16" deep, so the 990 and 7075 had to go along with the Sony CX777ES 400 disc dvd changer.

To simplify things I decided to use the OSB-1 with my LFM1-EX. It's not 5.1 Surround sound but it sounds good. I don't know how it works but you can hear sounds from both sides and the back!

I don't think that anyone will be dissapointed in the sound of the OSB--1, regular tv viewing and music sounds great with 3ch.


I am (was) thinking of ordering one for the bedroom until Outlaw announced the 975....


Old HT/2 channel

Samsung 45"
Outlaw 990
Outlaw 7075
Escient Fireball / Sony 777es
Klipsch Belles
Energy Surrounds

New HT / 2 Ch

Samsung 607500
OPPO 103
Outlaw OSB-1 / LFM1-EX
Peachtree NovaPre
Peachtree 220
Klipsch Belles

I was clicking around and came across this guy's site -- http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-home-theater-in-a-box-does-not-exist/

I would so love for a rebel Outlaw to do a "shoot out" with the OSB vs the notorious http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/yamaha-ysp-2200/ and for real humilation even throw in this flop -- http://articles.courant.com/2012-07-06/b...-blu-ray-player


I missed this a while back, and as much as I've been impressed by powered speakers from Audioengine I know the OSB will utterly annihilate any comers http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57551015-47/before-you-buy-a-sound-bar-speaker-read-this/

In regards to the soundbar phase and whether small surrounds with a sub sound better for about the same $$$ I am going to blaspheme. Several years back I set up my bedroom TV with a computer speaker system including an 6 inch subwoofer and 4 very small speakers. For free it sounds pretty good but the TV has no surround capability to really stress it out. The dialog is pretty good but I don't really have a center channel.