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#90945 - 07/18/12 10:19 AM Re: 978 Dead [Re: rangler]
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
As Outlaw's letter points out, there is inevitably going to be some discussion of conspiracy theories. Was the Model 978 a complete work of fiction, with this improbably tale a way to end its existence? That makes no sense to me, though. There's no benefit to Outlaw in this situation. They've got no readily available substitute (except the AV7005, which they've been offering for over a year now), so they can't simply "switch" people over to an alternative of some sort. The entry-level product isn't going to ship until late this year or early next year and is targeted at a different customer base, so this announcement does nothing to help steer sales to that product. If the announcement of the Model 978's death and the entry-level unit's birth had been simultaneous, that would be potential fodder for a conspiracy theory, but it would still be a pointless conspiracy for Outlaw to carry out. Besides, they have photographic proof that hardware samples of the Model 978 exist, including a faceplate and rear panel that are unique designs and internals that go along with that rear panel.


Edited by gonk (07/18/12 10:20 AM)
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#90948 - 07/18/12 10:33 AM Re: 978 Dead [Re: gonk]
nomoneybutgoodsound Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/21/06
Posts: 164
Loc: Mission,BC
Gonk, good to see you visiting this forum again.
The announcement was well written. Despite the major setback, they took the high road by not disclosing who the other "north american company" was. Nothing good could have been gained from that. With that being said, I am very curious about the potential new offering. I had there other "entry level" pre/pro the 970 with all the quirks, but it did sound very good when it did work and I figured out the quirks. I am pretty sure the new offering will be an improvement without too many quirks.

Hopefully we will see more information on the new product.

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#90951 - 07/18/12 10:39 AM Re: 978 Dead [Re: rangler]
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Originally Posted By: rangler
It was very strategic to pull this move when the 978 "was ready to be submitted for formal approvals". Their timing (the competitor's) meant to cause maximum damage.

Interesting point. Pretty Machiavellian, too, if the timing was planned. Frankly, though, any time during or after 2011 would have been damaging. What would have happened if the other company had waited six months to do this and the first production run was sitting in a warehouse in Massachusetts? Or, possibly even weirder, what if the first production run had been at the factory, waiting to go into a cargo container?
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#90952 - 07/18/12 10:45 AM Re: 978 Dead [Re: gonk]
Michael Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 13
Loc: Austin, TX
Is this the beginning of the end for Outlaw? I mean without a major product, they really don't have anything besides reselling other manufacturers products. My 950 died last year but I still have my old outlaw amp that I bought with my 950 but I don't have a processor for it so it isn't hooked up. Without a top of the line processor coming any time soon from Outlaw I'll be forced to go else where.

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#90953 - 07/18/12 10:50 AM Re: 978 Dead [Re: Michael]
ndskurfer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 120
Loc: Bismarck, ND
It is not the beginning of the end.

Outlaw has many great products other than a processor. Unfortunately, it is a major blow to what would have been one of their main products. I can't imagine the sunk costs involved, but I have faith that they will grow from this huge set back.

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#90956 - 07/18/12 10:57 AM Re: 978 Dead [Re: ColonelPackage]
EricTheBlue Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 35
Loc: Denver CO
Originally Posted By: ColonelPackage
From the way the story was described, it sure seems like there should be some sort of legal recourse for Outlaw, no? Surely there were contracts that were broken. To have the development and manufacturing completely and abruptly abandoned and to be left with a fraction of the product's IP with no way to finish its development seems really strange. I'm not suggesting some other conspiracy, it just seems weird that that's the end of the story.


+1: I sympathize with Peter and Outlaw. I genuinely believe they believe in their mission to offer high performance/price ratio AV products and given the circumstances Peter conveyed in his message, beyond breach of contract I would imagine compensation would also be due for development costs to date plus opportunity loss. The problem may lie in recovering from a Chinese firm however.

I just completed a DIY, PC-based prepro as a stop-gap solution until the the 978 was released (I'm not considering Emotiva's pending prepro due to the foolish choice of a single HDMI output-especially given the product's price point). Fortunately, my ad-hoc prepro has performed beyond expectations so I'm going to stick with it for the foreseeable future. I mention this because I'm toying with the idea of bringing a more refined version of this to market at low scale. Given Outlaw's result with the 978, I will resist using Chinese parts and labor as much as possible for my project. Given the nature of electronics manufacturing these days bypassing Chinese components will probably be close to impossible, but given the highly modular nature of PC components, I can at least mitigate exposure. It's not a question of Chinese capability. Rather I'm concerned about legal recourse if something like this happens to me.

Godspeed Outlaw-I wish your company the very best going forward.

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#90957 - 07/18/12 11:00 AM Re: 978 Dead [Re: Michael]
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Originally Posted By: Michael
Is this the beginning of the end for Outlaw?

I don't think it has to be. They have been without an in-house surround processor for several years now. Reselling the Onkyo 866 and the couple Marantz models has provided an option for customers, and that ties in well with their amp business (which remains strong, I think, and still offers some unique value). An entry-level processor could be a really nice successor to the spirit of the Model 950, especially if it offers strong sound quality. Frankly, the feature sets of the higher-end units ($1,500 price range) has gotten so overwhelming that there's probably a growing market for simpler and good quality.
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#90958 - 07/18/12 11:01 AM Re: 978 Dead [Re: Michael]
EricTheBlue Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 35
Loc: Denver CO
Originally Posted By: Michael
Is this the beginning of the end for Outlaw? I mean without a major product, they really don't have anything besides reselling other manufacturers products. My 950 died last year but I still have my old outlaw amp that I bought with my 950 but I don't have a processor for it so it isn't hooked up. Without a top of the line processor coming any time soon from Outlaw I'll be forced to go else where.


I don't think so. Though the loss of the 978 will hurt Outlaw for sure, they still make relevant, high-value electronics-especially in the categories of amplifiers and subwoofers.

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#90959 - 07/18/12 11:03 AM Re: 978 Dead [Re: Michael]
Audioholic Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 69
Loc: MI
I've been following the development of the 978 as a replacement for my main system's aging Anthem AVM 30 and possibly for my bedroom's 990. No one liked the delays but the death knell being rung due to a cojone-less competitor is truly disappointing.

At some point the true name of Pusillanimous Inc. will come out and I'll ensure that none of their products ever darken my door. Business is business but killing a competitor's product at the end of it's development cycle is petty and contemptible. Kudos to the Outlaws for taking the high road but I prefer the nuke and pave approach. If I ever meet the head poltroon of Pusillanimous Inc.'s namby-pamby department we'll be playing a game of Rochambeau with me going first.
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#90961 - 07/18/12 11:15 AM Re: 978 Dead [Re: gonk]
rjmelkon Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 02/21/10
Posts: 11
Originally Posted By: gonk
Originally Posted By: Michael
Is this the beginning of the end for Outlaw?

I don't think it has to be. They have been without an in-house surround processor for several years now. Reselling the Onkyo 866 and the couple Marantz models has provided an option for customers, and that ties in well with their amp business (which remains strong, I think, and still offers some unique value). An entry-level processor could be a really nice successor to the spirit of the Model 950, especially if it offers strong sound quality. Frankly, the feature sets of the higher-end units ($1,500 price range) has gotten so overwhelming that there's probably a growing market for simpler and good quality.
As far as my needs go you have hit the nail on the head.Give me HDMI connections and high quality DAC's and I,m good.That and a low price and there is a lot of potential here.

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