Nice to see you again around here Gonk although I wish it were under more enjoyable circumstances. Damn, I was convinced you were part of the beta testers. I guess I was wrong...

Hats off to Peter & Co. for being so upfront about what went on...it sort of explains the lengthy silences, and leaves us rooting for Outlaw to make a comeback in the pre-pro world. I was one of those who bought a "last year's model" Marantz as a hedge on an eventual 978. Best of luck to all at Outlaw; I still use and love my Outlaw amps (755, 200's, now vintage stuff!), loved my old Outlaw rcvr/pre-pros (1050,950,990) and hope that their entry-level offering is a hit!

I feel bad for the Outlaw guys but man they have had some really poor business practices of late. Even before all this happened with the competitor, they still basically refused to give updates except for maybe twice a year. There were people posting on here that they would never use Outlaw again and others that remained loyal that were begging for some kind of update and still couldn't get one for months at a time. I posted in the ICBM-2 forum months ago asking for something as far as news goes on this, and I got no response, and still haven't. I'm in the restaurant business and appreciate and need every customer I can get. I sell $4 hamburgers. A customer for these guys spends $500 to several thousand dollars. I can't believe Outlaw were letting customers walk out their door all over a simple monthly update. I also wonder why they can't get their product's information that would allow them to go to another manufacturer. I don't believe in silly conspiracy theories and all that. It seems to me that these guys just suck at rolling out new products and sucks even worse at picking partners. However, I think a simpler pre-pro will serve them well. XT32 is nice, but Behringer makes high quality parametric eq's for cheap and Room Eq Wizard is free at Home Theater Shack. For those worried about the dual sub eq'ing capabilities of XT32, a Marantz SR5005, a 2 channel Behringer Feedback Destroyer, the microphone and sound card needed for measurement, can be had for well under $1,000. Not to mention the education you'll receive from manually tweaking you're system. The 978 would have been well beyond that price point. You can also get 2 Velodyne SMS-1's and a Marantz SR5005 or Denon, for around $1500. Don't know what the price point was going to be on the 978 but I couldn't imagine it being cheaper than that. Modern pre-pro's seem to be the big leagues of home theater manufacturing and Outlaw obviously isn't there yet.

You're talking about CHINA. If the contract was with the Chinese manufacturer, they effectively have no recourse. Even if they try to enforce a contract and win, the judgments tend to be small and unenforceable. It would be like getting a debt judgement against someone and having the local marshal telling you to get lost when you try to enforce an asset seizure or collection attempt. Happens ALL the time in China. It's really the law of the jungle. Whoever has the deepest pockets and/or the support of the local political cadres calls the shots.

Now if Outlaw had any legal leg to stand on (don't know if they do or don't), it's always possible to go after the "big north American company" in a court in north America. I'm sure some bean counter will sort out the cost/benefit analysis of that route, if it's even open to them, and they'll proceed how they must.

I don't think anyone is getting their jollies over this event.

Best,

As far as who the NA manufacturer is, it can only be a handful. Someone who is close to releasing a new model. Compare the back end of the 978 to a few different upcoming models and it will become plain enough. It will come out who it is soon enough and they will have to face up to their actions. Too bad for Outlaw, it looks like the shut down was timed to hurt them as well.

"Things without all remedy
Should be without regard: what's done, is done." --- Shakespeare

Tough break for the Outlaws...but it's time to move on.

I'm looking forward to possibly replacing my excellent 1070 with their newly announced entry level processor coupled with a 1075 amp. Being budget-minded my aging AV room sofa will be first though

-John

My condolences. This is like being pregnant for so long and when the time is near to bear the child and had to abort, very painful indeed to take. There is that little glitter of hope to look forward to for the just announced secret new product.

I agree this was timed to hurt, or it sure looks that way but I would enjoy reading the other side of the story.

I also beleive Outlaw wants us all to know the name, or they would not have given the "North American" clue. -Bob

As far as the other side of the story goes...it isn't that far fetched to imagine a Chinese partner that didn't think the 978 was going to result in significant sales (pick your reason) and decided that they'd bet on a horse that could keep their workers working in a more steady/predictable manner. This is a much more likely explanation, but we'll never know unless the name(s) of the various players are brought to light. If the name(s) come out, it's only going to take a phone call or two to independently sort out what happened (which isn't to say that the version posted by Peter isn't the gospel truth).

Let's face it...the 978 wasn't going to sell well at all, especially given the delay in reaching the market. While I'm sure a lot of time/sweat went into the 978, this is likely to turn out to be the more merciful outcome for Outlaw. I'm not sure what they hope to accomplish by selling a cheap processor. That market segment is packed to the gills already and packed with competitors who have a lot more to spend on R&D and manufacturing. *shrug*

Best,

The fact that a (presumeably) large 'North American' company felt threatened enough by the 978 to pressure the Chinese factory indicates that they felt the 978's sales voluume would have been significant. I know Peter has said that there was a lot of interest going back to the 997.

There may be a lot of budget priced receivers currently on the market, but very few processors at the 978's price (and none with it's feature set, i.e. XT32).