#90482 - 06/02/12 08:57 PM
Re: 2012 June Model 978 UPDATE!
[Re: XenonMan]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 93
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
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As long as you check in every 2 years you won't miss many updates!!! Good one XenonMan!
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#90483 - 06/02/12 10:18 PM
Re: 2012 June Model 978 UPDATE!
[Re: Retep]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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[quote=beyond 1000][quote=Retep] Thanks, now help me escape! Ha! That would be the end of me, especially since her entire family is traveling form New Zealand and they already have tickets. For goodness sake Retep OUTLAW will cover their tickets and you can stay at my place. On second thought stay with the wedding plans and put in for a Marantz 7005 in the bridal registry. Quite honestly I have my doubts that the 978 will be released by your wedding day in September.
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"There is one who comes after me who's sandals I am unworthy to unloose." John the Baptist
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#90486 - 06/02/12 11:08 PM
Re: 2012 June Model 978 UPDATE!
[Re: beyond 1000]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/15/12
Posts: 78
Loc: Canada
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It's no good to pine...
_________________________
Home Theater: Epson 8100, Onkyo 876, Outlaw 7125, Oppo 103, Speakers: Paradim Monitor 7, cc370, Totem Lynks x 4 2 Channel system: Oppo 95, Parasound Halo A21, Halo P7, Paradigm Signature S6 Bedroom: NAD C326BEE, Panasonic S97, Tannoy Revolution DC4, Energy Classics
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#90487 - 06/03/12 02:44 AM
Re: 2012 June Model 978 UPDATE!
[Re: Ritz2]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 93
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
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If Marantz offers an AV7007 processor with just XT, then there's not a lot of reason to upgrade from the AV7005 IMO.
Too bad Denon didn't put XT32 in the 3313 either. It remains to be seen if XT vs XT32 provides much in the way of audible difference until we see some head to head comparisons. I'm a bit skeptical. Granted, higher resolution is nice to have, but I'm unconvinced that it makes a real difference in this application. I kinda like the Emotiva approach where they're apparently using embedded linux and fast DSPs. In theory, you should be able to upgrade to the latest/greatest code as long as the cpu has enough grunt to support it. I like that MUCH better than the ancien regime where you are basically tied to whatever was implemented on the day of manufacture plus or minus minor tweaks. Best, Ritz, As I previously posted weeks ago, one of the criticisms of MultEQ XT by many audiophiles is the relatively low number of filter points. This has led some owners of very high-end stereo systems to observe that MultEQ XT adds a veil to the original balance of the sound or decreases transparency; an observation not shared by all I might add. I've owned a Tact Audio M2150 class D amp for over 10 years and I've followed the Tact Audio User's Group threads on Yahoo's Groups for many years. I was considering a few years ago to get into Tact's RCS solution (Room Correction System). Tact's RCS supports 10K filter points over the 20KHz audio range, effectively giving it a 2Hz resolution. The Tact Audio digital room correction technology being designed for a single listener position and not being affordable to me at $10K back then ($15K now) for the multichannel TCS processor and about $5K for the two-channel RCS preamplifier prompted me to wait patiently for many years for other similar technologies to mature. The anecdote about Tact Audio's RCS, admittedly coming from Tact RCS users themselves, is that you have to put your head in a vise not to loose most of the correction effect. Audyssey's MultEQ, similarly to Lyngdorf Audio's RoomPerfect, Peter Lyngdorf being the co-founder of Tact Audio until he left about 6 years later to start Lyngdorf Audio, are digital room correction technologies that have been designed to allow room correction over a fairly wide listening area. I personally find this capability fairly important unless you always listen alone but on movies, how many people from a family really watch alone? Now that MultEQ XT32 also has over 10K filter points, my anecdotal observations from the various reviews I've read on it lead me to believe, and I could be wrong, that it has been embraced much more widely by the audiophile community, even by some of the previous critics of XT. These days, all A/V processors and receivers that offer some form of digital room correction feature programmable DSPs as opposed to fixed-function DSPs like a decade ago. Tact Audio has being doing it for over 10 years and Audyssey for almost 10 years. The A/V processors and receivers that run MultEQ XT and XT32 typically feature a pair of TI's higher-end Aureus digital audio processors that integrate not only a DSP core but also an ARM RISC processor core. Those DSPs have to first decode the licensed audio codecs (DD, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS Master Audio, FLAC, etc.) and then apply digital room correction on top or whatever else feature the user may have chosen. Audyssey like Dolby or DTS provide their software code to the licensees that run it on the DSPs and those licensing manufacturers have to integrate that code with other features of their own like customs control software and if they choose an embedded OS like Linux or QNX. And in theory, you're correct, they should be able to install new software features so long as the processor has enough power and specially if the system has enough RAM and flash ROM to be able to install them in the first place. I'll leave you with a review of XT32 on the Integra DHC-80.2 A/V processor from Kalman Rubinson of Stereophile. Kalman has tested many of these digital room correction systems over the years including the Tact RCS, Lyngdorf RoomPerfect, Anthem ARC, etc. You can also read this recent review of the Integra DTR-80.3 A/V Receiver on Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity where the reviewer gives his impressions of XT32.
Edited by jam (06/03/12 03:32 AM)
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#90488 - 06/03/12 04:09 AM
Re: 2012 June Model 978 UPDATE!
[Re: jam]
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Desperado
Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Virginia
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Hey Jam, Thanks for the pointers to the Integra processor reviews. The 80.3 looks SWEET. I'll have to give the XT32 processing a listen. Best,
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#90495 - 06/04/12 06:59 PM
Re: 2012 June Model 978 UPDATE!
[Re: Ritz2]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 93
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
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Ideally, you'd have to find a dealer that sells a processor or receiver with XT32 and that also happens to have the older model of that same gear with XT from his used gear lot. Now if that dealer were to be kind and patient enough to setup a system with the XT gear and do the calibration, then allow you to listen to a few tracks and then insert the XT32 gear in place of the XT, that would be the best possible comparison. But in practice, finding a dealer with the necessary gear and the extra-ordinary patience and willingness to perform those tests is highly improbable.
Edited by jam (06/04/12 07:00 PM)
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#90501 - 06/05/12 04:59 PM
Re: 2012 June Model 978 UPDATE!
[Re: jam]
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Desperado
Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 336
Loc: Illinois
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Some pessimists help to temper false hope while others just grow tiresome... Thanks for including the links about other systems that include XT32. I think too many people are overly pessimistic about the prospects for what the 978 is likely to deliver. btw I fully agree that audio shops with the ability to allow for meaningfull comparisons are increasingly rare, and even the concept of A/B systems /components is foreign to some dealers way of doing business. In a way I can rememmber when Linn tried to make his dealers agree to "single strand" their showrooms and that did not seem to be a particularly good way to foster consumer loyalty, but OTOH I know that when I go past the Porsche dealer they don't have Corvette on hand for me to test drive so I can sorta undderstand the mindset from either side of the arguement. With those things in mind (and knowing the limits on doing XT32 settings without a PC and associated license controlled software) I have suggested that the Outlaws work on way to get into select retail channels as a FEATURE of the 978. Who knows if they take such input seriously (or even check the boards at all, heck they'd probably end-up like Lane Pryce if they read some of these comments... ) ( cut a lot of tresoe stuff that has been rehashed too many times...) As I previously posted weeks ago, one of the criticisms of MultEQ XT by many audiophiles is the relatively low number of filter points. This has led some owners of very high-end stereo systems to observe that MultEQ XT adds a veil to the original balance of the sound or decreases transparency; an observation not shared by all I might add. I've owned a Tact Audio M2150 class D amp for over 10 years and I've followed the Tact Audio User's Group threads on Yahoo's Groups for many years. I was considering a few years ago to get into Tact's RCS solution (Room Correction System). Tact's RCS supports 10K filter points over the 20KHz audio range, effectively giving it a 2Hz resolution. The Tact Audio digital room correction technology being designed for a single listener position and not being affordable to me at $10K back then ($15K now) for the multichannel TCS processor and about $5K for the two-channel RCS preamplifier prompted me to wait patiently for many years for other similar technologies to mature. The anecdote about Tact Audio's RCS, admittedly coming from Tact RCS users themselves, is that you have to put your head in a vise not to loose most of the correction effect. Audyssey's MultEQ, similarly to Lyngdorf Audio's RoomPerfect, Peter Lyngdorf being the co-founder of Tact Audio until he left about 6 years later to start Lyngdorf Audio, are digital room correction technologies that have been designed to allow room correction over a fairly wide listening area. I personally find this capability fairly important unless you always listen alone but on movies, how many people from a family really watch alone? Now that MultEQ XT32 also has over 10K filter points, my anecdotal observations from the various reviews I've read on it lead me to believe, and I could be wrong, that it has been embraced much more widely by the audiophile community, even by some of the previous critics of XT. These days, all A/V processors and receivers that offer some form of digital room correction feature programmable DSPs as opposed to fixed-function DSPs like a decade ago. Tact Audio has being doing it for over 10 years and Audyssey for almost 10 years. The A/V processors and receivers that run MultEQ XT and XT32 typically feature a pair of TI's higher-end Aureus digital audio processors that integrate not only a DSP core but also an ARM RISC processor core. Those DSPs have to first decode the licensed audio codecs (DD, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS Master Audio, FLAC, etc.) and then apply digital room correction on top or whatever else feature the user may have chosen. Audyssey like Dolby or DTS provide their software code to the licensees that run it on the DSPs and those licensing manufacturers have to integrate that code with other features of their own like customs control software and if they choose an embedded OS like Linux or QNX. And in theory, you're correct, they should be able to install new software features so long as the processor has enough power and specially if the system has enough RAM and flash ROM to be able to install them in the first place. I'll leave you with a review of XT32 on the Integra DHC-80.2 A/V processor from Kalman Rubinson of Stereophile. Kalman has tested many of these digital room correction systems over the years including the Tact RCS, Lyngdorf RoomPerfect, Anthem ARC, etc. You can also read this recent review of the Integra DTR-80.3 A/V Receiver on Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity where the reviewer gives his impressions of XT32.
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#90538 - 06/07/12 10:09 PM
Re: 2012 June Model 978 UPDATE!
[Re: jam]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 34
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Ideally, you'd have to find a dealer that sells a processor or receiver with XT32 and that also happens to have the older model of that same gear with XT from his used gear lot. Now if that dealer were to be kind and patient enough to setup a system with the XT gear and do the calibration, then allow you to listen to a few tracks and then insert the XT32 gear in place of the XT, that would be the best possible comparison. But in practice, finding a dealer with the necessary gear and the extra-ordinary patience and willingness to perform those tests is highly improbable. I think it would be best to do the comparison in ones own room. I had the Onkyo 886 for over 3 years and found XT worked well for movies and at times for MCH Hi-Rez music. I never used XT for 2CH music as I did not find the SQ to my liking. I recently bought a Denon 4311 with XT32 and it is a nice improvement over the 886 with XT. The most significant gains are how my Rythmik F12SE sub blends with my Salk SongTowers. Another noticable gain is how much better my surrounds blend with my LCR speakers especially with MCH music. I have been enjoying 2CH music with XT32 enabled as well. Although my comparisons were not the least bit scientific I feel XT32 is a nice improvement over XT. YMMV . So unless one has experience with both XT and XT32 it is hard to pass judgement either positive or negative . Bill
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#90541 - 06/08/12 02:29 AM
Re: 2012 June Model 978 UPDATE!
[Re: Bill Mac]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 93
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
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Bill, thank you for your observations and impressions of XT and XT32, many here will find them interesting. While those observations come across different brands and designs, they still have some valuable insights. In my last post I wanted to describe a scenario where one would ideally compare models from the same lineage of a particular brand in order to have a more apples to apples comparison of the differences between XT and XT32. For instance one could compare the older Integra DHC-9.9 or DHC-80.1 with MultEQ XT to the newer Integra DHC-80.2 or DHC-80.3 with MultEQ XT32. Aside from a few new features in the newer units, those processors share many similarities in terms of the analog output stage designs and parts used in them. But as I said, it's very difficult to find two of those units in the same place and to arrange comparative listening tests or have the shop lend you both units to take home for a weekend. Indeed, I agree with you that to be able to pass judgement, one needs to have experience with both flavors of MultEQ. I find your comment about how you enjoy listening to stereo music with XT32 enabled very interesting as I've read similar comments from other users on various forums. My anecdotal observations from some user comments are that this was less the case with XT or at least more open to debate. BTW, in case you missed it on AVS forums, I replied to your post on the Marantz AV7007 thread about an article on Big Picture Big Sound about the SR7007 receiver. This article was brought to our attention on this forum courtesy of rubbersoul.
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#90719 - 06/19/12 11:39 PM
Re: 2012 June Model 978 UPDATE!
[Re: 73Bruin]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 120
Loc: Bismarck, ND
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The way things are going, Outlaw will be selling a Marantz SR5007 with the amps disabled before the 978 ships. Makes you almost wonder why they don't have Marantz create an OEM version of the 500x line every year without the power-amps and an Outlaw faceplate and call it the 91x. Just thought I would bump this posting, although the current sr5007 for sale does have the amps enabled..
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