#90373 - 05/18/12 01:04 PM
Re: 978 Release Date
[Re: jam]
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Desperado
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
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If BD continues to exist even if only as a niche format like lp (and Laserdisc was), I'm still a happy camper.
One problem is companies trying to tell us something is high def when it isn't. I had analog cable. And the picture for its day and age wasn't bad. Digital SD from Dish network (and digital SD video from Comcast) both are *worse* than analog cable SD quality. So then I get HD from Dish. I say, HD from Dish isn't much of a step above a good upscaled DVD. (DirecTV isn't any better either.) Nowhere close to HD from BD. I go to a satellite forum where people argue that point, but I know what I see. They are just fooling themselves.
So I will personally remain very skeptical when HD streaming is promoted by anyone.
Edited by Kevin C Brown (05/18/12 01:05 PM)
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#90374 - 05/18/12 01:40 PM
Re: 978 Release Date
[Re: Kevin C Brown]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 93
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
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I couldn't agree more Kevin as I've also previously posted.
HD whether from cable, satellite or streaming are to Blu-ray what MP3 is to CD.
Edited by jam (05/18/12 01:47 PM)
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#90375 - 05/18/12 03:12 PM
Re: 978 Release Date
[Re: jam]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 05/06/12
Posts: 22
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bluray is also far from perfect, still disc size of 50GB(dual layer) is big for being a 5 year old technology, if there up to 10TB optical comes it will take a while for harddrives to catch up, the problem will be to keep the cost down. fibre optics has enough bandwidth for blu-ray quality streaming.
many people today today haven't heard a good mastered lossless album and therefore don't know what they are missing. i switched to flac using $20 logitech speakrs and the difference was so big i didn't beleave my ears until i did some blind testing and converted the song myself, after that i startet to listend to music for real, this was with poor mastered music.
still there will always be claims like "you can't hear difference between flac and good mp3". maby it's the same thing for movies. ofcourse you will enjoy it much more with quality setup, the bottleneck here is the source just as with mp3 files.
i actually think model 978 will be released within 3 mounts. it is good news for people who want a affordable unit with audyssey xt32 and good dacs.
Edited by anjora (05/18/12 03:16 PM)
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#90377 - 05/19/12 12:40 PM
Re: 978 Release Date
[Re: Ritz2]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Times change. There was a time where Outlaw was in front of the pack in terms of features and well out in front in terms of price/performance. That's no longer the case. There are a growing number of competitors in the (Emotiva is frequently mentioned) space that implement the same business model. Design the product using "commodity" components, do what you can to add value with support, and then outsource production to China/Timbuktu/wherever. After seeing the sad/comic Keystone Cops attempt to deliver a successor to the 990 over the past FOUR years, I don't think I would feel comfortable buying something as complex as a theater processor from Outlaw any longer. They clearly have very little control over the process and the management of both process itself and the piss poor management of customer expectations with respect to delivery dates has been a complete joke. That might sound harsh, but let's just call a spade a spade. I find myself wondering if this flailing around is a result of poor capitalization, poor management, or both. Outlaw has ceased to be relevant (at least for me) in the enthusiast home theater market. Sad, but time marches on.....
Best,
Unfortunately I must stick my poor neck out and agree with this comment. I love Outlaw and this is a bitter pill to swallow but as Ritz just stated the facts are there. Outlaw has no longer gone into the forefront like it used to. It's either mismanagement and mis-marketing or just quietly riding off into the sunset. The power amps Outlaw sells are still tops with me but no new relevant products and slow on the draw. The 978 will not help Outlaw "catch up" unfortunately. Yes...Sad but time does march on.
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#90378 - 05/19/12 12:48 PM
Re: 978 Release Date
[Re: XenonMan]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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As far as I am concerned discs are the only way to go for PQ and sound. Everything else is subject to how many people are using the bandwidth at the same time. It is only a matter of time before we hit the wall and lose even more quality.
I totally agree on this Xenonman. I want to clarify my position on streaming and downloading. I love Bluray and I want physical media to stay AND improve. This is our only guarantee of picture and sound quality. I would like movies to become a bit more affordable but this is not the case. It will be a while before we do see streaming that will be a true 1080p with lossless audio. The best senario is to just go for a newer Bluray disc in which movies are on physical media at 2k or 4k and new sets. It is what the "I don't care" masses really want that drives the industry to more money. Only a big dog like Apple can bring downloading in mega-terabite harddrives to replace bluray but then again how much do the masses want this technology. They are still giddy about the next I-phone.
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"There is one who comes after me who's sandals I am unworthy to unloose." John the Baptist
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#90380 - 05/20/12 12:20 PM
Re: 978 Release Date
[Re: beyond 1000]
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Desperado
Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 383
Loc: folsom, pa.
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For what it's worth.
I read just a few posts concerning streaming video and audio and I thought that it would be all right to throw my opinion in the mix.
Sorry if this has been already voiced by other Outlaws.
I currently have a Roku, Sony 777, and the Oppo 93. While I love the connivence factor of the Roku and have the idea in my head that the Roku for a mere $69.00 acts as my own media server I still see and hear a difference in physically putting a disc in the tray of my Oppo and the Sony.
Some of my friends and family (what do they know ha-ha) thing I am crazy and say they do not hear quote "that much of a difference".
I feel that there is more accurate audio and film presence putting a disc in the tray....Yea!
I have been thinking about listening to my iTune collection from my iMac to my HT. I am also considering taking the use of my Sony 777 (capacity 400). Clearing out all of my standard dvd's and replacing them with 400 of my best music cd's. When I get tired of my 400 Best of..collection I can always put in my second Best of.
But what do I know.
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B&W 803D2’s HTM3S DS7's
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Mitsubishi 6800 Projector
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#90381 - 05/20/12 01:10 PM
Re: 978 Release Date
[Re: rubbersoul]
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Deputy Gunslinger
Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 3
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I also prefer physical media when there is a quality difference. A year ago or so I was looking into streaming video and found this comparison table (may be out of date now). http://www.reelseo.com/video-quality-comparison-reference-table/I also found that uncompressed, a Blu-ray would produce a bitrate of 3000 Mbits/sec. So at 40 Mbits/sec, Blu-ray discs are already are fairly compressed with a 75 to 1 compression ratio. For music I am OK with the lossless compression such a Apple Lossless which has a 2 to 1 compression ratio (or there abouts). Most people though are just fine listening to music that has been severely compressed using really poor equipment. That said, I use NetFlix to get access to content that is not available elsewhere and am willing to put up with the reduction in quality for the low cost and great convenience.
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#90382 - 05/20/12 04:44 PM
Re: 978 Release Date
[Re: Ulli Pietsch]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 05/06/12
Posts: 22
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There has newer bean any point of getting higher than 720p for 2d movies. Many people dont reliase how much space uncompressed hd video takes up.
Products getting delaied several years is nothing unusial for prepros. The anthem d2v 3d should have bean released 2010 and is currently being tested to gey the hdmi 1.4a certification. The benefit with hdmi 1.4a over 1.3 is
-3d
-ethetnet channel
-audio return channel
-2k*4k at 24hz
So the only real benefit with version 1.4 is 3d which would need hdmi split otherwise, i am personally not interested in 3d. I doubt hdmi 1.4a is worth the extra time it took to implement in these 2 cases.
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#90384 - 05/21/12 12:39 AM
Re: 978 Release Date
[Re: anjora]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Hey Anjora
I do agree with you on 3D which I also do not care for. Where you do say that products being delayed for several years being nothing unusual is one I feel that is going the wrong direction in part of Outlaw for the 978. Competition is strong and technology is changing at a rapid rate. Outlaw has to get off the starting line sometime and their name as a competitor and a leader hangs in the balance.
Please read what Ritz wrote above in which I agreed just below him. Outlaw are delaying themselves into irrelivance on this delay. It shows they are not big enough to tool out a new high quality unit and stay competitive within fast changing technology.
They HAVE to get the 978 out now and quit delaying the project for reasons of perfection. They may be facing a situation in that "They built it and nobody came."
_________________________
"There is one who comes after me who's sandals I am unworthy to unloose." John the Baptist
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#90389 - 05/21/12 03:08 AM
Re: 978 Release Date
[Re: beyond 1000]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 26
Loc: Oakland, CA
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Outlaw made a mistake in trying to become a cutting edge company. They don't have the money or size to pull it off. They could have come out with a 1.3 with Audyssey 2 years ago, combined it with superior components, and made a killing at the right price point. Better to do what's already done and do it at a better price point. Oppo showed the way.
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