>All this talk about weight for a pre/pro is just silly IMO.<
Agreed. I would skip weight in favor of the 978’s dimensions, that way I can see if it will fit into my cabinet. As to quality, I would rather see the lab results from a Sound and Vision review so I can compare it to other receivers and pre’s they have measured.

Bob

Maybe they're expecting PR issues. Seems that ATI just hired Jeff Hipps (remember him during the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 Outlaw debacle)??

The hits just keep on comin.....

As I recall, ATI bought B&K a year or so ago. Jeff's experience with receivers and processors could be useful for them if they're trying to find a way to use B&K's resources.

@cp... You've got it backwards. The 990 is the heavier of the two units at 12.7kg. The AV7005 is 10.1kg.

A mfgr could insert a little lead "stabilizer" since it's only $0.89 per pound, spot price. BUT, your pre would then either be barred in CA or would sport one of those bright yellow "...known to the state of California to cause death or birth defects. Please wash your hands after using." stickers. (Same sticker I just saw on my Christmas lights.)

Best if they just increase the thickness of the pc boards, use better caps, make the structural components heavier, cut out all plastic, and bring back the noiseless toroidal power supply.

That would imply that the end game is about increasing quality rather than increasing their margins (which is really the only reason you'd outsource all this stuff to China in the first place).

With the exception of existing customers who still have a soft spot for Outlaw, I'm not sure where they hope to sell these things when you consider the wide variety of competing product that's already on the shelves at price points that Outlaw can't hope to match. At some point, they'll have to sort out whether they want to be in the quality business or the "moving lots of lower end product" business. The latter is already quite crowded with companies with significantly more resources.

I really wish Outlaw would focus their scarce resources on segments where they could differentiate themselves and offer real value. The more budget-minded "audiophile" market is sorely lacking an affordable digital multi-channel amp. Come out with something with spec's similar to the 7700 and a high efficiency digital design and folks would beat a path to their door.

Or they can just continue the path towards hawking other people's equipment with their "tweaks" and faceplate. Maybe that's what they want after all?

Best,

Getting the 978 out of their way may allow them to work on some other gear we could be interested in. Whatever happened to the replacement for the ICBM. A receiver based on the 978 would also be a logical solution. An extension of the capability of the OWA3 to a powered speaker system could also generate some interest.

Does anyone know approximately how many full time employees are at Outlaw? 10, 50, 100?

Isn't that where this "movie" started? -- with Sherwood-Newcastle? Can't imagine Outlaw revisiting that again, even flying solo. Mechanically, at least, it'd be a whole new ballgame and I would be surprised if there aren't still some patent or proprietary design issues that survived their parting of the ways. In fact, that may be the reason for some of the delays now.

You can list a bunch of technical reasons that have made this a difficult project -- moving target HDMI specs, choice of equalizer circuitry, tsunami in Japan, and perhaps a couple of others. But, during this same time frame hundreds of other electronic devices have been successfully designed and brought to market including cell phones, tablets, new technology TVs, medical devices and even audio equipment. Arguably, these devices are as complex, if not more so, than an audio preamp, even a sophisticated one.

There's no real new technology here; I see the design challenge as being largely mechanical or marketing based. A cell phone deals with rf, audio, video, computing, touch-screen displays, satellite signals, all in a small fraction of the volume of a preamp and every vendor seems to be able to bring to market several models per year. The preamp, by necessity of accommodating all the connections to the outside world must be physically large. But, they've already done one that was successful. They know how to build a quality preamp.

The financial viability of this project must be questioned. I have the impression that most high-end audiophiles are not in their 20s or 30s. Almost everyone on these forums already owns a preamp. The 978 would be a replacement for a previous purchase. I wonder how many of the 20 or 30 somethings who have been weaned on MP3 compression and think high end audio is a 12 inch-wide clock radio with a docking station, are ready to enter the high-end audio world? Is there really the expanding market that is required to support a business?

Another factor must be the revenue lost due to the potential customers unwilling to wait. These forums are littered with the receipts of tens of thousands of dollars in competitor sales - money that could have been returned to Outlaw had they thrown the same amount into solving their problem early on.

While I can't see a financial benefit to Outlaw to bring this to market at a competitive price point, to not do so would probably do irreparable harm to their reputation. One of the most difficult decisions in business is to know when to cut the losses. Their problem is that they need a preamp in their product line, to complete the signal chain.

7335 forum members, assume 95% are potential outlaw customers=
7000 customers.
Assume another 10% own Outlaw but not on forums= 7700 possible customers.
Guess 35% (prob high) would buy a 978 =2700 sales.
Price(?) $1900 x 2700 = $5.1 million
Say we're off by factor of 2; still $2.5m is sales. Say cost is 75% of selling price (prob high); profit = $625,000
Unlikely that would pay for R&D -- but while it might not sink the company, it would preserve their integrity. Worth something.

According to this:

http://www.manta.com/c/mm2xyfx/outlaw-audio

They've got "5 to 9" employees and have gross revenues in the $5-10mm/year range. Unless those sales figures are wrong, that's a vanishingly small number. That's a few thousand of their lower end amps.

They basically only need someone to answer the phone and fulfill orders since they don't actually manufacture anything themselves. Peter Tribeman is listed as the point of contact and he's also the president and CEO of ATI (the company that produces most of Outlaw's amps).

Best,

@Ritz -- We appreciate your astute evaluation of Outlaw, Inc. For two people (receptionist and shipping clerk) to generate $5 million in sales makes them a rather remarkable company. Too bad it's not publicly traded.