It's precisely this attitude that has gotten us (as a country) into the pickle we're in. So do you continue the madness or do you try to fix it? Personally, I'd prefer to try to fix it instead of throwing up my hands and resigning myself to the fact that we're being co-opted. I'm not picking on you, in particular, since there are obviously a lot of people who simply don't care and follow the cheapest price wherever that may lead.

Best,

I live in Silicon Valley, and I cannot tell you how many letters to the editor in the local paper show up ragging on Apple, for example. The gist always is, they are making money hand over fist, they should take some of that money and invest in manufacturing in the U.S.

What those people fail to understand, is that it's the fiduciary duty of the board and executives of the company to maximize profits for the shareholders. And to do that, they have to make their products in China. If they did try and bring manufacturing back here, profit margins would go down, and they could be sued.

I love capitalism and our market economy. But it is far from perfect.

With that said, what I would love to see, for example, is once Outlaw gets the 978 out and rolling, do a "higher" end version, made here in the US (by ATI), with better parts, and see what it would cost. But then the issue becomes, for those of us that would pay more for something made here, how much more would we pay? And are there enough of us for Outlaw (or any company, for that matter) to do a version made here?

"Proudly made in the U.S.A."

Personally, I've never put a number figure on it, but I could see paying up to 50% more for something of higher quality made here.

Free enterprise is a core value of this country and has been since before its inception. We as a nation have consistently passed laws and regulations which make it hard to produce a quality product in the USA for a fair price. There is no viable way to change it since we pretty much spent 200+ years building it. Although some patriots refuse to sell our souls to others willing to make a profit, I prefer to recognize reality and buy items which I can afford which provide quality for a lower cost. Realistically how much more would we be willing to pay for the 978 if it were made in America. I maintain that the current price will be close to $1500. I would expect it to cost 50% more if made in America. Would the vast majority of OUTLAW customers be willing to pay that price when Marantz, Denon and Onkyo would then be the best bang for the buck. I expect most would not since we are almost all either owners or potential owners of Outlaw equipment.

I am not sure that a 50% mark-up for something assembled in the USA is accurate. This price differential doesn't show up in the price of automobiles made in China (for example the Buick Regal is made for the Chinese market by GM Shanghai). I won't say that this is a fully accurate analysis, but based upon what I could find in Google and doing a currency conversion, the prices are very comparable to what the same US model costs. I have seen arguments that the portion of the price of Apple iPhone that is the result of the manufacturing process is almost a nit, implying that the product could be assembled almost anywhere with very little impact on its price or margin.

Nonsense -- the Buick Regal for the North American market is assembled in Ontario.

For products like the iPhone the component cost is far more important than the actual "labor" of assembly and those components are made in China and other SE Asia countries.

It is fair to say that if the components were to be shipped across the Pacific the odds of saving more than a modest amount of money for assembly would be rather small, but that presupposes that whole manufacturing pipeline could survive the inefficiency of having slow downs like shipping in the lowest value rung of the final assembly stage. The various environmental and logistic concerns of having a mass scale product assembled in the US would likely prove impossible to overcome...

For a more limited scale product, like the 978, the various hurdles to domestic production might seem be easier to deal with, but the reality is that the techniques needed to build even limited distribution products like an audio receiver in anywhere other than SE Asia are have been hard to come by for probably 4 decades or more. Honestly take a "time machine" back to before CD playerss were commmon placewhen vinyl and 8-tracks rules and the products from Sansui, Pioneer, Luxman, Yamaha, Teac were built in Singapore or Japan.

The $12,000 McIntosh MX150 carries a very noticeable little screen printed tag: "Assembled in the USA from USA and imported parts". And I am sure the good people run D&M Holdings are at not making any excess profits from their "flagship"...

I suspect that the Outlaws did all they could to try to source a domestic source of assembly and found no suitable solution. Somehow I doubt that any "economic war" will be won by firms like McIntosh or Peachtree doing "final assembly" in the USA while the "guts" are put together in SE Asia...

Try to apply the UAWs wage scale in China with their benefits package and the requirements to have their factory comply with OSHA, ADA, EPA, Oxley-Sarbanesand a host of other requirements WE as a populace of the US of America have enacted over the last 20 years and see if anyone but the factory owners can afford one. Next time you are over there check to see if the elevators in their building have the annual inspection certificate required in the US. Also, if you check closely you will see that the Buick Regal is a rebadged Opel Insignia. It is assembled in China but it is a significantly different car than the one assembled in Canada and IMPORTED into the US.

Let's pull apart any US built piece of electronic equipment and see if the word China is inside. Anyway you shave it your $$$ is going to someone outside the US. Cheap labor and lack of stupid regulations are the drivers. Our minimum wage of $7.65/hr is as much as many in asia make i a whole day.

The point I was making was that the Buick Regal made and sold in China (probably with some US and EU made components) sells for approximately the same price as the Buick Regal made in Canada for the North American market. They are basically the same cars with perhaps engine, safety and trim differences http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-buick-regal-gs-gm-rebadges-opel.html or if you prefer http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0905_2010_buick_regal_drive/viewall.html

Similarly with the iPhone, I was pointing out that manufacturing cost was a very small part of the overall cost of the device (the primary portion being Apple's profit).

Consequently, it is my belief, that it is possible to assemble (at minimum) a device like a pre-pro in the United States from components that are all not Chinese at a price mark-up that is substantially less than 50%.

Renov8r: As for the $12,000 McIntosh, I would not be surprised if more than half the total cost was either dealer or manufacturer profit. I would guess that the actual manufactured cost to be more like $4500 per unit (perhaps less).

If it could be done at the same profit margin I am pretty sure companies would want to use American labor because it is generally much more productive and the government is less corrupt and more stable.

I have not professionally dealt with Chinese firms, but have experience in Mexico. It is sad to see the working conditions and poor pay. I would invite all of the Wall Street occupiers to visit a Mexican border town. Those of us in the 99% have it pretty darn good.

Comparing doing business in China or Mexico it is obvious why made in the US carries a heavy premium. And to me, it is obvious why so many of us have the Walmart mentality. We want to maximize our return just like big business. I wonder how many crazy people there are like me, that when they go into Home Depot or their local department store, actually look on the packaging for country of origin? I bet it is a very small percentage.

Not trying to get into politics, (had that on AVS) but would Outlaw gain any customers if they built (assembled) the 998 in the US? I guarantee you I would buy it. That’s at least one. I would pay up to twice the price of the 997.

It seems logical to me that ATI has the capability to assemble complex electronic hardware. I suspect there are other factories in the US that could as well. Heck I have a switcher from Zektor that is made in the US. Outlaw could advertise “The only home theater processor made in the US for under $XXX”.

Come on Outlaw, build us a processor made in the US.

You may be short a digit or two. My point is the country or origin of the parts is still not the good old USA and never will be again. Most of us are Outlaws because we don't want to go with the whole big box store thing and want the best bang for our hard earned 1% $$$.