I would agree that manufacturers have been having problems building reliable HDMI pre-pro/receivers of any sort with 1.4/1.4a perhaps being the most difficult (hence devices like the HDS-12). At this point there are a number of designs out there with HDMI 1.3 including room correction including the Sherwood R-972 (which has pre-outs).

FWIW, I don't think that room correction with the exception of Trinnov has been all that difficult as many manufacturers have released room correction using Audysssey based chipsets as well as room correction from others.

I suspect that "going it alone" (as opposed to being beholden to other manufacturing partners that left them in the lurch -- like Inkel) as well as the level of difficulty of integrating all the features AND the OSD and having a bit of a "moving target" with regards to the competition have all factored into the delays with the 978.

Those same factors are also why I suspect other smaller manufacturers are so reluctant to enter this market space. It is a heckuva lot easier to offer some "sonically astonishing" new DAC, tube based two channel device or even things like speakers, power amps and black box "problem solvers" than it is to make a "clean sheet of paper" product that has to meet a high bar for simplifying what is often a complicated process of storing multiple room correction measurements for current advanced room correction.
The possibility certainly exists that Outlaw and its chosen manufacturing partner are not up to the task. I prefer to speculate on the more optimistic possibility that tweaks to the UI and/or similar adjustments to a mostly solid beta test that would elevate the upcoming product / make it as polished as any of the other offerings from Outlaw...

Check this one out. Pretty impressive pre that has been out for a while.

Denon Pre/pro

jacket_fan: I agree but did you notice the product is HDMI 1.3 compatible not 1.4 or 1.4a. I suspect that this is where Outlaw is having its greatest challenges with the 978.

Denon makes the AVR-3312CI that offers pre-outs as well as most of the other whizbang consumer-driven features on modern theater receivers....all for an MSRP of $1099.

http://usa.denon.com/us/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?CatId=StreamingMedia(DenonNA)&PId=AVR3312CI(DenonNA)

When connected to a network, the AVR-3312CI lets you listen to Internet radio, play audio files, and display images via an Ethernet connection. The receiver also supports AirPlay, which allows you to stream music wirelessly from an iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, or iTunes. Or, connect an iPhone/iPod/iPad directly to the receiver with a USB cable.

With the Denon Remote App installed on your iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch, you can perform basic operations, like turning the AVR-3312CI's power on or off, adjusting the volume, and switching sources.

The AVR-3312CI is DLNA v1.5 Certified and compatible with Windows 7 for audio and photo streaming, as well as giving you convenient web control. This receiver provides online support for Pandora, Flickr, Napster, and Rhapsody, allowing you to enjoy a wide variety of online digital content at any time.


It's STILL made in China <groan>, but you can buy it today.

Best,

I think that Outlaw would do very well to be using a "generic reference design" that lists for roughly 5x the target price of the expected price of their up coming offering.

(I also wonder what Vann's is thinking by offering a whopping .00653% discount off of MSRP -- http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVP-A1HDCI-Reference-Streaming-Preamplifier/dp/B0013XDE4M , really motivates to buy now, NOT!)

The Denon pre-pro unit I mentioned above is listed at an MSRP of $1099. Is Outlaw planning on selling their unit for $220???

Best,

Yep every reciever that has any kind of line level out is really just a pre-pro in disguise, PLUS they throw in those magically rated amps. Wow you've really uncovered quite a conspiracy.


Bugatti is really just selling a "reference design" Miata with a very fancy faceplate, eh?

If its a receiver with pre-amp outs, then yes its a pre-pro in disguise. Just ask Outlaw as they marketed their own 1050 and Sherwood R965's that way and continue to do so for the Martanz SR5005.

FWIW, your Bugatti comparison is pretty lame. Outlaw, by definition, is not and never will be a Bugatti type product. In this instance, comparing a Miata to a BMW Z4 is still a stretch with its approximate 2x price factor.

While I have NO illusions that the "top of the mountain" catchet of a "super car" is not what the 978 is targeting, I do think the sort of compromises (especially in regards to noise floor) that go along with utilizing any receiver as a pre-pro is probably similar to attempting to take any roadster out on even a SCCA course with "all season tires" -- you can do so but when you compromise on that piece other performance advantages are probably going to be quite masked...

These sorts of arguments get pretty silly, but on some level I guess it gets back to what one believes about how best to portion out one's home audio budget. Even if I had the dough to drop on the high dollar Denon pre-pro my personal bias is that all products from that nameplate are more about how the marketing can be done rather than how they perform sonically. I doubt I am alone in that judgement. My experience with other firms is that a different design philosophy infuses their firm and product offerings -- if something does not enhance listening / fidelity it is not offered...

Of course sometimes the differences between a high dollar offering and something more affordable can be quite signficant and other times not at all apparent, that is why respected reviewers are such an important part of the A/V scene. Sadly the majority of such reviews do not focus on nearly as objective a set of criteria as automotive reviews, maybe this is inevitable as the difficulty in boiling down performance in the audio realm is a far harder thing that reporting on "lap times"...

Suppose, just for kicks, that Outlaw paid folks like those that have primarily done work for ATI or Manley a fair hourly rate to create the specs, schematics, wire wrap prototypes, PCB layouts and other necessary "work product" to have the kind of device that would have "super car" levels of sonic fidelity. Would it be reasonable to accept some minor trade offs in the "laundry list" of features that more mainstream firms promote? Is it reasonable that perhaps some beta testers uncovered some quirks of usability that likely would result in confusion / dissatisfaction? Would I be engaging in Pollyanna-ish fantasy to think that Peter's recent trip was primarily to address those quirks that otherwise detract from a product that might "run circles" around other higher priced pre-pros? Gosh I hope not...