#89134 - 01/16/12 09:47 PM
Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever...
[Re: jacket_fan]
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Desperado
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
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I have my reservations about whether a small firm like Outlaw could pull off manufacturing here in the states where larger firms have failed. Two firms that come to mind here in the USA that have survived over the years are Macintosh and Magnepan. Both of them have sterling reputations and fill a niche in the market. They also don't over-reach. They know there strong areas and tend to stick to them.
Acquiring a building and staffing it with clerical, assembly line and security people, not to mention training the workforce to assemble product would be a multi-year project which would probably result in a reduction in quality in the short term. I just read where controlling interest in Onkyo USA was purchased by Gibson Guitar and they are now the second largest owner of Onkyo Corp. If a big company like Onkyo needs investment funds where does a small firm stand a chance?
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Music system Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD APC H15 Power Conditioner
TV System Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv
Home Theater System Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv Harmony ONE Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects APC H15 Power Conditioner
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#89135 - 01/16/12 11:16 PM
Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever...
[Re: XenonMan]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 01/04/10
Posts: 39
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I have my reservations about whether a small firm like Outlaw could pull off manufacturing here in the states where larger firms have failed. Two firms that come to mind here in the USA that have survived over the years are Macintosh and Magnepan. Both of them have sterling reputations and fill a niche in the market. They also don't over-reach. They know there strong areas and tend to stick to them.
Acquiring a building and staffing it with clerical, assembly line and security people, not to mention training the workforce to assemble product would be a multi-year project which would probably result in a reduction in quality in the short term. I just read where controlling interest in Onkyo USA was purchased by Gibson Guitar and they are now the second largest owner of Onkyo Corp. If a big company like Onkyo needs investment funds where does a small firm stand a chance? In recent years, there has been considerable consolidation in the CE industry and I am afraid even the venerable brand McIntosh is no longer a US based company having been purchased a number of years ago by D&M holdings the Japanese organization makers of Denon and Marantz, and along the way they have purchased other brands like, among others, Snell and Boston Acoustic speakers. Magnepan is one of the few still manufacturing domestically in Minnesota.
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#89137 - 01/17/12 10:54 AM
Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever...
[Re: casey01]
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Desperado
Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Virginia
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[quote=XenonMan] In recent years, there has been considerable consolidation in the CE industry and I am afraid even the venerable brand McIntosh is no longer a US based company having been purchased a number of years ago by D&M holdings the Japanese organization makers of Denon and Marantz, and along the way they have purchased other brands like, among others, Snell and Boston Acoustic speakers. Magnepan is one of the few still manufacturing domestically in Minnesota. I suspect it won't be long before D&M gradually guts McIntosh, using some of their generic "platforms" assembled in China, slapping a McIntosh faceplate on it, and profiting off the brand. It sounds laughable, but in a world where "audiophiles" will spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on relatively generic cabling with fancy techflex covers and (mumble)-plated connectors, anything is possible. Best,
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#89139 - 01/17/12 12:16 PM
Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever...
[Re: Ritz2]
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Gunslinger
Registered: 01/04/10
Posts: 39
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[quote=XenonMan] In recent years, there has been considerable consolidation in the CE industry and I am afraid even the venerable brand McIntosh is no longer a US based company having been purchased a number of years ago by D&M holdings the Japanese organization makers of Denon and Marantz, and along the way they have purchased other brands like, among others, Snell and Boston Acoustic speakers. Magnepan is one of the few still manufacturing domestically in Minnesota. I suspect it won't be long before D&M gradually guts McIntosh, using some of their generic "platforms" assembled in China, slapping a McIntosh faceplate on it, and profiting off the brand. It sounds laughable, but in a world where "audiophiles" will spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on relatively generic cabling with fancy techflex covers and (mumble)-plated connectors, anything is possible. Best, I think your comments just further exemplify how gullible some of the so-called "high-end" community is that in the case of McIntosh specifically, as long as they can have that characteristic front panel, they will continue to pay no matter the cost. Also, in reference to that, I can recall a recent review of McIntosh's new Blu-Ray player($8,000) that when all was said and done, sadly, its overall performance and features didn't even measure up to a mainstream $200 player(but of course, there is that McIntosh front panel).
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#89140 - 01/17/12 01:58 PM
Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever...
[Re: casey01]
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Desperado
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
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Grado still manufactures their stuff here. Not "electronics" per se, but their headphone amps have some electronics in them. In can be done. And it can be done cost competitively. I know. I work in one of the few remaining semiconductor fabs in Si valley, and our costs believe it or not are still competitive with the Chinese fabs that come knocking at our door every year trying to take the business away from us. But we are a low volume, high performance analog/mixed signal house. (Digital is easy peasy, analog is more of an art.)
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#89145 - 01/17/12 06:14 PM
Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever...
[Re: Kevin C Brown]
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Desperado
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
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Although they have been owned by D&M since 2003 and by Clarion since 1990 Mcintosh still assembles their equipment in the USA in Binghamton as far as I know. Anyone know anything to the contrary? I agree eventually their name will be put on some garbage electronics and sold to some knothead for a huge markup but I hope that day is a ways off.
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Music system Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD APC H15 Power Conditioner
TV System Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv
Home Theater System Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv Harmony ONE Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects APC H15 Power Conditioner
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#89146 - 01/17/12 07:39 PM
Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever...
[Re: XenonMan]
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Desperado
Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 506
Loc: Torrance, CA USA
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Personally, I was hoping that Outlaw would work with D&M to have McIntosh build the 978/998 for Outlaw. It would certainly give them more profit out of their factory than they have been likely to get otherwise. The differentiation could have been a combination of components (e.g. higher quality DAC's, more memory/faster CPU) and functions/features that are in other D&M products (e.g. Networking). I know that Gonk said D&M would have no interest in this, but it made some sense to me.
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Living Room 24x18 open 1/2 flight up to a raised dining room/hall 24x12 Outlaw 976 pre-pro running 5.1 system Outlaw 750 for Artison Masterpiece LCR and 2 NHT SuperZeros rears Velodyne Servo FX-1200 LG OLED65C8PUA via HDMI2 to/from 976 HDMI ARC Roku Ultra Samsung BD-D5500 BluRay Amazon FireStick 4K to 976 Aux HDMI input for Amazon Music Ultra
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#89147 - 01/17/12 08:02 PM
Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever...
[Re: 73Bruin]
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Desperado
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
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I would think it would be similar to asking Ford to build the Camaro on the side.
_________________________
Music system Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD APC H15 Power Conditioner
TV System Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv
Home Theater System Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv Harmony ONE Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects APC H15 Power Conditioner
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#89151 - 01/18/12 12:55 AM
Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever...
[Re: 73Bruin]
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Desperado
Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 336
Loc: Illinois
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Nah, I think the good people at Audio Note are really gonna assemble the 978. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0810/audio_note_uk_ongaku.htmbtw I have sources telling me all new 2013 Mustangs are being hand assembled my some nice chaps that work in the McLaren plant in Surrey instead of the dreary old Ford plants,the higher volumes ought to really the help the bottom line of the Formula One champion, right? http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/17/mclaren-new-sports-car-factory-david-cameron Personally, I was hoping that Outlaw would work with D&M to have McIntosh build the 978/998 for Outlaw. It would certainly give them more profit out of their factory than they have been likely to get otherwise. The differentiation could have been a combination of components (e.g. higher quality DAC's, more memory/faster CPU) and functions/features that are in other D&M products (e.g. Networking). I know that Gonk said D&M would have no interest in this, but it made some sense to me.
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#89153 - 01/18/12 02:28 AM
Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever...
[Re: renov8r]
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Desperado
Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 506
Loc: Torrance, CA USA
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XenonMan and renov8r:
I guess its a dumb idea, after all D&M Holdings would never agree to build speakers for Outlaw in competition with speakers Snell Acoustics was already making.
I should also have realized that Outlaw that would place too big a volume demand on McIntosh Labs. After all, if Outlaw sold 880 units per year, this would be perhaps 4 units a day.
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Living Room 24x18 open 1/2 flight up to a raised dining room/hall 24x12 Outlaw 976 pre-pro running 5.1 system Outlaw 750 for Artison Masterpiece LCR and 2 NHT SuperZeros rears Velodyne Servo FX-1200 LG OLED65C8PUA via HDMI2 to/from 976 HDMI ARC Roku Ultra Samsung BD-D5500 BluRay Amazon FireStick 4K to 976 Aux HDMI input for Amazon Music Ultra
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