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#89114 - 01/14/12 05:09 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: XenonMan]
73Bruin Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 506
Loc: Torrance, CA USA
The original argument was about buying products made in China. My point was that assembly could be done in the USA. I can't speak for all of the components, but it was my understanding that at least some of the key parts for the 978 were from Japan (which was part of the reason for the delay). I would be willing to bet that between the USA, Japan, Singapore, Thailand, and Taiwan almost all of the component parts could be acquired without resorting to Chinese suppliers. The biggest unknown is probably the software. I have to believe the Outlaw got a huge deal there.
_________________________
Living Room 24x18 open 1/2 flight up to a raised dining room/hall 24x12
Outlaw 976 pre-pro running 5.1 system
Outlaw 750 for Artison Masterpiece LCR and 2 NHT SuperZeros rears
Velodyne Servo FX-1200
LG OLED65C8PUA via HDMI2 to/from 976 HDMI ARC
Roku Ultra
Samsung BD-D5500 BluRay
Amazon FireStick 4K to 976 Aux HDMI input for Amazon Music Ultra

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#89115 - 01/14/12 05:53 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: 73Bruin]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
I for one will wait until the 978 is out a few years and then reserve one if it is as good as advertised. Regardless of where it is constructed, if the quality control doesn't support the design then it will not succeed.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#89116 - 01/14/12 08:50 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: XenonMan]
jacket_fan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
You may be short a digit or two. My point is the country or origin of the parts is still not the good old USA and never will be again. Most of us are Outlaws because we don't want to go with the whole big box store thing and want the best bang for our hard earned 1% $$$.


I understand your point about all the components will never be made in the USA. However, a company can buy parts from competent suppliers, but build the darn thing in the states.

I also agree that the big box store is not the best bang for the buck. And you may not think buying domestic products are the best bang for the buck, and not worth any extra expense. I prefer to support domestic suppliers whenever possible.

Change of topic: I was in Home Depot today and found light bulbs made in Poland. It is a global economy if you can build light bulbs in Poland and ship them to the states cheaper than you can build them here. Light bulbs are pretty light by volume. Maybe it is because they were incandescent and Congress is outlawing incandescent bulbs and we have to get them from Poland now.

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#89120 - 01/15/12 10:47 AM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: jacket_fan]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
Another regulation that is changing the way our economy functions. Even though it seems inconsequential, apply the process across everything we consume and the effect becomes incomprehensibly large. I own a lot of quality equipment from the 70s that was built in the USA and is still functioning perfectly. When I bought it the trend towards Japanese stuff was in full swing and gradually their equipment became the mainstream as I could not afford Macintosh, or Phase Linear anymore. I still enjoy music and now HT which means I buy what is available at a cost I am able to justify. I agree that a company CAN buy components and assemble a piece of gear here in the states, but the cost always seems to be jacked up partly, I am sure, because they can say it was built in the states and partly because of extra costs involved. Being a BBFTB kinda guy, I don't see paying a premium to allow a manufacturer to take advantage of my pride in America.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

Top
#89123 - 01/15/12 06:59 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: XenonMan]
jacket_fan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Atlanta, GA
XenonMan, let's agree to disagree on this subject. I am sure I am in the minority.
_________________________
No matter where you go, there you are.

mj

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#89124 - 01/15/12 07:26 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: jacket_fan]
73Bruin Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 506
Loc: Torrance, CA USA
Jacket_Fan: I hope not. And I just wish I could find LED lights that weren't made in China.
_________________________
Living Room 24x18 open 1/2 flight up to a raised dining room/hall 24x12
Outlaw 976 pre-pro running 5.1 system
Outlaw 750 for Artison Masterpiece LCR and 2 NHT SuperZeros rears
Velodyne Servo FX-1200
LG OLED65C8PUA via HDMI2 to/from 976 HDMI ARC
Roku Ultra
Samsung BD-D5500 BluRay
Amazon FireStick 4K to 976 Aux HDMI input for Amazon Music Ultra

Top
#89127 - 01/16/12 02:17 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: 73Bruin]
Kevin C Brown Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
An interesting article about offshoring. Kind of detailed if you can slog through it. The gist is: it isn't as profitable as you think to offshore manufacturing.

http://www.manufacturing.net/articles/2012/01/miscalculations-in-moving-production-overseas?et_cid=2426427&et_rid=54689337&linkid=http%3a%2f%2fwww.manufacturing.net%2farticles%2f2012%2f01%2fmiscalculations-in-moving-production-overseas
_________________________
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... New and Improved !!


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#89128 - 01/16/12 06:47 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: Kevin C Brown]
renov8r Offline
Desperado

Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 336
Loc: Illinois
Interesting article but I suspect that the scale that the author has experience with is wholly out of the league of an audio products firm doing business today.

I suspect that very low volume product (under 1000 units / yr) will never make sense to send over seas, as the risk is just too great.

Further I suspect that firms that have shifted VERY high volume manufacturing to multiple overseas facilities likely have learned the hard way that overhead costs virtually force them into consolidation in the lowest cost country regardless of how badly that hurts return rate and similar quality metrics. That seems the main point of the linked article.

My guess is that the Outlaws' target is far higher than 1000 units / year (though well below the sky high volume of the linked article) and their current efforts are needed to ensure the "return rate" is very small...

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#89129 - 01/16/12 07:14 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: renov8r]
Kevin C Brown Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Another one:

http://www.manufacturing.net/articles/2012/01/will-re-shoring-take-off-in-2012?et_cid=2427218&et_rid=54689337&linkid=http%3a%2f%2fwww.manufacturing.net%2farticles%2f2012%2f01%2fwill-re-shoring-take-off-in-2012
_________________________
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... New and Improved !!


Top
#89131 - 01/16/12 07:48 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: Kevin C Brown]
jacket_fan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Kevin, a positive note. Listen up Outlaws, there may be a case for some domestic manufacturing, and you guys are just the ones to lead the way.
_________________________
No matter where you go, there you are.

mj

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