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#89065 - 01/11/12 05:14 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: XenonMan]
Jeff Mackwood Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 427
I think rubber just might hit the road (or perhaps aluminum/composite hitting the [fill-in-the-blank]) when the American consumer is able to choose to fly in a "made-in-China" aircraft. shocked
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Jeff Mackwood

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#89067 - 01/11/12 08:57 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: Jeff Mackwood]
jacket_fan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Jeff, China is entering the commercial aircraft market. You may get the chance very soon to fly on one.

China Commercial Aircraft

Kevin, I still am using an MC-12, and appreciate the build quality.

It must be that there are not enough folks like us for manufacturers to risk selling more expensive US made products. I call it "The Walmart Mentality". Folks are going to buy the cheapest product no matter where it is made.

Let's assume Outlaw decided that the 998 is going to be built in the US, let's say by ATI. How much more would building it in the US raise the price? Is it 30%, 50% double? I would be willing to spend more on a premium product if it was made in the US, and I bet others would too. SVS had good press when they advertised their subs were made in the US.
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No matter where you go, there you are.

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#89068 - 01/11/12 10:56 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: XenonMan]
73Bruin Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 506
Loc: Torrance, CA USA
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
Like it or not, US laws are such that the Ferengi choose to pray to their god rather than stand on principle. Take the case off your equipment and look at the innards. The word CHINA is in there and even if it is "assembled" in the US only 50% of that has to be done to say built in the US. I agree with the patriotic feelings that most of us share, but the reality ship sailed a long, long time ago. Hopefully Outlaw is able to control the quality as well as the cost.


There is plenty enough to bash the government about rather than blaming it for your or my greed. The reality is while many American consumers don't care, American corporations (both on the buying and selling side) have sought to maximize their profits and in doing so largely removed the manufacturing location as an item of choice.
_________________________
Living Room 24x18 open 1/2 flight up to a raised dining room/hall 24x12
Outlaw 976 pre-pro running 5.1 system
Outlaw 750 for Artison Masterpiece LCR and 2 NHT SuperZeros rears
Velodyne Servo FX-1200
LG OLED65C8PUA via HDMI2 to/from 976 HDMI ARC
Roku Ultra
Samsung BD-D5500 BluRay
Amazon FireStick 4K to 976 Aux HDMI input for Amazon Music Ultra

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#89069 - 01/11/12 11:03 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: jacket_fan]
Jeff Mackwood Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 427
Originally Posted By: jacket_fan
Jeff, China is entering the commercial aircraft market. You may get the chance very soon to fly on one.


Ummm...

I know.

I've been in the aerospace business, on the technology side, for over two decades.

I've seen the Chinese in action first hand during that period.

I've met with hundreds of their scientists, engineers, managers, handlers, and spies.

Because I use my real name on everything I post, that's all I'll say except that while the opinion that I have formed about the danger that is China is personal, my professional life has given me insight(s) that the average person most certainly has not been privy to.

ps. I went through the C919 mock-up at last year's Paris Airshow.
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#89073 - 01/12/12 10:58 AM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: Jeff Mackwood]
Ritz2 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: Jeff Mackwood


Ummm...

I know.

I've been in the aerospace business, on the technology side, for over two decades.

I've seen the Chinese in action first hand during that period.

I've met with hundreds of their scientists, engineers, managers, handlers, and spies.

Because I use my real name on everything I post, that's all I'll say except that while the opinion that I have formed about the danger that is China is personal, my professional life has given me insight(s) that the average person most certainly has not been privy to.

ps. I went through the C919 mock-up at last year's Paris Airshow.


While I'm not in the aircraft business, I can relate to the handlers/spies thing. Nothing like getting followed out from a conference by a couple of guys with earphones who also show up at your hotel, restaurants you visit, etc. The PRC is treating this as a war....while we roll our eyes and treat it as an inconvenience. Sending money to people that are actively trying to hurt us is self defeating. We, as consumers, can either play along or do what we can to not participate.

Re: C919

It was interesting to note that along with the gaggle of Chinese airlines that submitted orders, GE Capital Aviation was among them. Turns my stomach.

Best,


Edited by Ritz2 (01/12/12 11:05 AM)
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#89081 - 01/12/12 08:35 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: Ritz2]
Retep Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 266
Loc: Tauranga, New Zealand
Change our tax laws and regulations and you may get manufactures to comeback to the US, eventually. Just look at the video of Steve Wynn saying that the way to be profitable is to be in China and that it's hard to be profitable here in the US. When I lived in Cali my neighbor was a VC and he sent his sons to China to see how things are being done. Like Wynn he said we could never compete with China with our current laws and regulations.

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#89087 - 01/12/12 10:23 PM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: Retep]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
In the long run we have created this monster ourselves. We convinced the rest of the world that capitalism was the way to go but failed to foresee what would happen when all those countries with lower standards of living and labor costs realized thay could play the game and beat us at it. At the same time we went out of our way to invite cheaper markets here whereas we can't challenge them in their markets (NAFTA anyone). Trying to reverse 40 years of playing dead in the manufacturing arena by refusing to send $$$ to regimes who are competing against us is IMHO futile. When my equipment gives up the ghost or just becomes seriously obsolete, I will look for the best bang for the buck piece of equipment I can buy no matter where it is built or who gets the money.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#89092 - 01/13/12 12:28 AM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: XenonMan]
73Bruin Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 506
Loc: Torrance, CA USA
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
In the long run we have created this monster ourselves.


I don't want this "we" label applied to me. I try very hard to avoid products made in China (where possible and reasonably affordable) and am willing to spend somewhat more for that. As a simple example, I buy Allen Edmund and New Balance shoes that are made/assembled in the USA and don't buy clothes that are made in China. I wish Outlaw would contract with someone like ATI to make their preamps and receivers.
_________________________
Living Room 24x18 open 1/2 flight up to a raised dining room/hall 24x12
Outlaw 976 pre-pro running 5.1 system
Outlaw 750 for Artison Masterpiece LCR and 2 NHT SuperZeros rears
Velodyne Servo FX-1200
LG OLED65C8PUA via HDMI2 to/from 976 HDMI ARC
Roku Ultra
Samsung BD-D5500 BluRay
Amazon FireStick 4K to 976 Aux HDMI input for Amazon Music Ultra

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#89093 - 01/13/12 09:07 AM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: 73Bruin]
bobm Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 146
>Outlaw would contract with someone like ATI to make their preamps and receivers.<
That would be nice but do you think ATI could do it sucessfully in the current market? I just looked at their web site and they don't have a current prepro nor does B&K unless I missed it.

Bob

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#89094 - 01/13/12 09:15 AM Re: Thread to bash the integrity of whatever... [Re: bobm]
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
B&K had been trying to develop one when they folded, but it had been severely delayed. I have no idea what sort of resources they had in place that ATI might have picked up when they bought the company.
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