Will be Outlaw have Bluetooth remote like the PS3?

Sorry if this have been asked before, I didn't want to read through 18 pages.

I don't think it has come up, but I would be stunned if the remote was anything other than the standard IR.

Other than for things such as PS3, Bluetooth remotes are problematic, as they make it a real pain to program the remote into a "universal" remote such as Harmony or similar. Yes, there are PS3-specific BT to IR converters, but that just wouldn't make sense here.

In Scott's January 26, 2011 update on the 978 he noted:

"As a counterpoint to the latest in HDMI and digital audio processing, the Model 978 will include an audiophile grade phono preamp section, specifically designed for the Outlaws. We know that many of you still have extensive vinyl collections, and this will make it easy for you to listen to them as they were intended to be heard."

Does anyone have an idea how the 978 will handle bass management for vinyl playback? Vinyl playback is probably the only disappointing feature of my 990. Then again the 990 is an AV pre/pro and the phono function was never a primary feature. But if in fact the 978 will allow me to listen to my albums "...as they were intended to be heard" I hope that it will be along an analog path that shows the benefit of having an audiophile grade phono preamp.

Are there features and components in the ICBM-2 that can be incorporated in 978 to handle bass management for the phono source? I have an original ICBM that works great as an analog high/low pass filter in a dedicated stereo setup that would be terrific in the 978. Regardless, I hope the 978 avoids some of the quirky attributes (double bass to the sub and the speakers have to run full range) of the 990's Bypass mode which is the only way to avoid digital processing.

I would expect the Model 978 to offer a straightforward option for analog bypass at stereo inputs. After all, every unit they've developed from scratch except the original Model 1050 has offered this, and only the Model 990 (based on someone else's platform) had the sorts of quirks you mention.

As for bass management, I kind of doubt we'll see something analog just for a single stereo input. For one thing, it is adding extra cost and complexity to a feature that many owners will never use. For another, they already have (or will have) a product that can provide such functionality for folks who really want to keep everything in the analog domain: the upcoming ICBM-2. I would expect the ability to convert that input to digital, apply bass management and other processing as desired, and convert back to analog - it's not as pure a path, but depending on how good the DACs are (and we've been told to expect very good quality parts there) it could be a very transparent way to achieve bass management.

I was not aware that other Outlaw products didn't share the 990's goofy bypass mode. How was analog bypass handled in other Outlaw products?

Many folks who want to add a turntables to their 978 are probably going to using sat/sub speakers that need bass management and I think most vinyl aficionados would prefer a pure analog path. Maybe the RR2150 is better example of how analog bass management could be implemented versus the ICBM-2. It just seems counter intuitive to take an analog source and put it through an ADC, process it (including room correction?) and then back through a DAC for playback. Much has been said about the quality of the DACs in the 978 but I suppose to achieve transparency they, along with the ADCs will have to be very good. Much of the resurgence in vinyl is based on how it sounds and it would unfortunate to not be able to hear albums "...as they were intended to be heard."

It's been a lot of years since I had a Model 950, so I may be forgetting something, but in analog bypass mode the stereo signals went to the left and right channels with only volume control. The sub was inactive, unless you wanted to use the 6CH input with a separate phono pre-amp (in which case you had analog bass management using an 80Hz crossover). I think the Model 1070/Model 970 was similar.

None have offered the RR2150's bass management flexibility for analog sources, but then again they are different products with different focuses - the surround processors focused on doing bass management in the digital domain first and foremost, with analog bass management provided as a perk for folks with multichannel analog sources. I don't know how practical it really is to build in the RR2150's analog bass management capabilities on a surround processor that is focused mainly on HDMI.

If you convert the analog source to digital, I'd expect that you would be able to apply any digital processing that you wanted to, including bass management, matrix surround processing, and room correction. It may seem counter-intuitive, but some would argue we're already getting away from an intuitive configuration when we pair a traditionally two-channel analog device like a turntable with a traditionally digital surround system like a home theater. We get to a point where you probably need to choose: here it "as it was intended" (analog pass thorugh, limited or no bass management), or apply some or all of the full suite of digital tools now available to you.

If you pick the former, I wonder how much content exists below the typical front channel -3dB point on most recordings that would make missing out on having the subwoofer really a problem? In vinyl's golden age, we didn't have subs and lots of "full range" speakers rolled off around 40Hz or so. Of course, if your record collection includes a lot of pipe organ recordings, the answer to my question could be "lots of content."

I probably lived through "vinyl's golden age" and in the last couple of years I've rediscovered a lot of great music that is only available on vinyl. I got excited when I re-read Scott's post about the 978's phono preamp and how this pre/pro might pull double duty for HT and vinyl. I agree it is probably unreasonable for the 978 to offer bass management in both digital and analog domains but it would be a very cool if it did. If the 978 handles analog bypass as you described then that would be a big improvement over the 990 in particular for those with full range left and right speakers. Those with bookshelf or small speakers would get less performance if they choose bypass and almost force them to allow digital processing of the analog signal.

Understanding the limitations of my 990 I set off a couple of years ago to assemble a separate stereo system that combines many vintage components with newer ones such as an outboard DAC (for CD's and computer playback) and an ICBM for my satellite/sub speakers. But the heart of this system will be a turntable so I can relive some of those "golden" analog times and tunes.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to getting the full scoop on the 978's features. My 990 is getting "a little long in the tooth" and now with so few pre/pro choices the 978 should find an eager market when it arrives.

Gonk, I think it's been long enough that you don't remember this correctly. From page 6 of the Outlaw 950 user manual:

STEREO BYPASS button (see page 31)
Defeats the DSP processing section and provides an unaltered, full-bandwidth stereo signal to the Left and Right channel outputs on the rear panel. However, the subwoofer DSP crossover remains active and bass frequencies are available at the subwoofer output should you wish to augment your front LR speaker’s low frequency performance. The word BYPASS appears in the FRONT PANEL DISPLAY. Pressing the button again returns the unit to the previously selected DSP mode.

JimboG:

I am a new 990 owner, but isn't what you are describing the "dreaded" double bass (assuming your front speakers can go lower then the cutoff frequency for the subwoofer DSP)?