I guess it comes down to what you consider an "upscale processor". I would consider Lexicon, Classe, Meridian and Theta to be upscale - and they do not include Ethernet that I am aware of.

True, but Marantz's AV7005 at $1500 and Integra's DHC-40.2 at $1200 both have it so I don't think it's really a upscale feature anymore for prepros or receivers. Because the 978 will be upgradeable via usb the lack of Ethernet should not be a huge deal, though Ethernet would have been a more eloquent way to do it.

As others have noted, the really high-dollar processors (Lexicon, Anthem, Classe, etc.) don't include this typically. Companies like Marantz and Onkyo and Integra do, but that is because it is carried over from the dozen other products they build that they can use the same basic networking hardware and software for, thus distributing the R&D costs across a lot of separate sales. Additionally, the presence of a port doesn't guarantee the capabilities offered by that port. The possibilities are extensive - RS232-style control, web control, firmware updating, network file access, streaming services like Pandora and Netflix, etc. - but it's rare to find a product that supports all of those.


When they talk about network connectivity, they are mainly talking about accessing local file servers and streaming media services such as Netflix, YouTube, Pandora, Hulu, Vudu, Amazon VOD, etc. Your Squeezebox is a much better device for accessing and managing music files on your server than a surround receiver or processor. Other very good options such as the Roku boxes, Boxee, AppleTV, and a lot of similar devices have been designed from the ground up to serve this purpose, each with a different approach to it. Outlaw doesn't want to try to re-invent the wheel (and pass the costs of that re-inventing process on to all of the processor customers) when others are already offering those features in a separate chassis. It's considered preferable to let customers buy the device they want or need than to try to provide a one-size-fits-all solution inside the surround processor.

With the speed of change in the internet availability markets I am glad Outlaw has chosen to forego getting into the "race to space". I have a Roku box and it interfaces with my 886 just fine through HDMI. It has all the cabailities available and it cost $69. If the market changes I can upgrade it without changing my prepro for some minor input device which doesn't make my system sound better but only makes it more flexible. Don't want or need the extra cost and headaches when it does not function through no fault of Outlaw. The ethernet systems are too fickle unlessyou have a wired input in your rack.

Though I think you made a valid point about the efficacy of external streamers, I'm not sure what you meant by this comment. For an RJ45 Ethernet jack what else would one use beside a hardwire connection? I've never had any issues with multiple firmware updates or local network streaming via my Denon prepro. Though I've certainly heard of some users experiencing hiccups with Ethernet on some AVS receiver/prepro threads, I didn't get the impression that the flaws were endemic to the interface in general. If anything, Ethernet-based firmware updates via my AVP have proven to be a Godsend compared to the prepro it replaced (Onkyo Pro PR-SC885). With the Onkyo I had two choices for firmware updates: Either take it to a local authorized repair shop (which presents its own risks when it's not the original equipment vendor), or attempt the update via data file playback from a CD /DVD player. By the way, as a matter of Onkyo policy users were not supposed to update the PR-SC885. As there were horror stories about some owners bricking their Onkyo prepros via CD update, I sent my unit to the repair shop once for update, then promptly sold it when it dawned on me that multiple firmware updates would be likely for any AV receiver or prepro throughout its life cycle. Since living with two products that allow Ethernet firmware based updates, I would be very hesitant buy to buy another AV receiver or prepro that didn't have it, or a reliable equivalent (as I expect the 978 to be) for owner firmware updates.

I think he means wifi is the problem - that network connections are fickle unless you're hard wired.

The PR-SC885 is very unpleasant to update firmware on. I did it once (without a trip to the shop) but it was a huge hassle to do. It was one of the biggest strikes against the unit, in my opinion, and a pretty bad black eye for Onkyo. If I had to pick a single method for firmware updating, I'd prefer USB over Ethernet. That's because anybody can download files onto a USB stick and - with at most the investment in a $10 USB stick. Not everyone will connect an Ethernet cable to their gear, but a product that relies on Ethernet only for their firmware updates (like the Marantz AV7005) will force them to either move the unit or run a really long cable temporarily for the purposes of doing the update. Of course, having both available works, too (as OPPO has been doing with their Blu-ray players).

Yes I was referrin to wi-fi connections. That is how my Onkyo interfaces with the net. For updates I agree with Gonk in that USB is the way to go. I have updated my OPO twice and it was a cinch both times. I bought my 886 from Outlaw and when it arrived it didn't have the latest firmware installed so I sent it back and they did the install for free including shipping costs. I don't think I will ever update the 886 because of the hassles involved.

I agree that using wifi for firmware updates is a bad idea. As to whether USB or Ethernet is better depends on the individual and his/her circumstances. As you said, if there is no Ethernet near the prepro then USB makes more sense. Conversely, if a jack is nearby, I think Ethernet updates would be better for three reasons:
1: No need for a PC or usb drive.
2: The ease of updating relative to having to use a PC located elsewhere.
3: No need for PC literacy. Though I suspect this won't be an issue for most 978 owners, Ethernet-based updating should be painless so long as the owner can plug in a jack and navigate a unit's menu (which will be required to set the unit up anyway).

As previously stated, usb updates work fine for me, and will be extra convenient as I will have a HTPC co-located with the 978.

With my 885, I lucked out because a local authorized dealer was available. However, had that not been the case IMS, I would have been responsible for shipping at least one-if not both-ways.

Though I appreciate your view on future 886 updates given the hassle involved, I hope it doesn't come back to bite you if you ever decide to sell. I say this because when I put my 885 up for sale years ago, one of the first questions I was asked by most buyers was if the latest firmware was installed. The nice thing about many current receivers and prepros is that owner firmware updates are included standard, so future buyers won't be as likely to focus on the unit's firmware status.

1. If Outlaw wanted to, they could include a 512KB or 1MB USB stick in the box with the Model 978. All users need to do is download a file (or files) onto their computer (Windows, Mac, or Linux), copy the file(s) onto the stick, and plug the stick into the processor. They can even get the file(s) at work if they don't have a computer at home.

2. If you have a home network and will have the processor connected to the network all the time, Ethernet should be straightforward. What I've noticed while watching people get into Blu-ray players is that frequently they don't have Ethernet at the equipment rack. That's why I think it's really important to at least have USB as an option. As for the proximity to a computer, a USB update doesn't require that at all. I've lost count of the number of times I did USB firmware updates to the BDP-83 when I downloaded the files and copied them to USB at work (five miles away from the player) and installed the update when I got home.

There's another wrinkle: let's assume for a moment that someone doesn't have broadband at home. Maybe they live in an area where broadband (cable, DSL, FiOS, etc.) is unavailable or they just don't want to pay for it. (I have co-workers who fall into both categories.) In that case, that person would have to take their processor to a different location to install firmware via Ethernet unless they had an alternative. In both cases, USB firmware updates would still be possible using dial-up Internet access or by carrying a tiny USB stick to a different location (like work or a friend's house) and retrieving the file that way. If you're going to pick only one firmware update procedure, I'd recommend USB over Ethernet - in part because of the potential for situations like this.

3. Connecting a player to an Ethernet jack can be simple enough, but it still requires some knowledge. Networking equipment isn't always easy. It can in fact be pretty complex, depending on how you do it. Copying files onto a USB stick is basic - far, far easier than the process required to update the Model 990, Model 970, and Model 1070. It's comparable to or even easier than what OPPO Digital has been doing since 2005. Dealing with firmware updates is part of the price of admission with the products we're using now. For better or worse, we're stuck with it. The USB approach is a very reasonable and user-friendly approach that works for the widest range of users.


I agree that USB should work just fine. Ethernet can also work. We've both done it, after all. I would only want to do it if the interface was already being included (which is not the case on the Model 978 and won't be the case on the Model 998) and USB was still available as an option.