I am looking to purchase the Samsung HLP4674W
DLP tv. This is there 4th generation model.
From what I've heard, this is "the set"!
Anyone purchase this set yet? Any info on other
top contenders from 42-46"?
Thanks

i would not purchase a samsung. they are cheaply made and prone to failure. i am speaking in general about their products, but also specifically about their tvs/dlps. i have known people who have had numerous issues with them and have had seen for myself ones that have gone bad.

I personally have heard good things about the Samsung DLP's and know two owners. One bought the 46 inch 3 years ago when it first came out and the other just bought the 61 inch a few months ago, and neither have had any problems.

I have a 30' direct view Samsung HD widescreen that I purchased 2 years ago and I have been very pleased with it.

I would just research and find as many topics on the Samsung as possible and then go on test viewings. JVC's D-ILA sets are based on a LCoS technology and also have gotten good press, but do not have a 43 or 46. Their screen size starts at 51'

I have looked at both the Samsung and the JVC side by side and they both look great. The JVC, I personally thought, had better color seperation and a more vivid picture overall. Both pictures were bright and razor sharp.

The 2nd generation JVC's have supposedly addressed the noisy fans and heat problems.

Mitsubishi's DLP also is a great set, but expect to pay $500.00 to $1500.00 more than the Samsung or JVC depending on the screen size, which starts at 50'.

I've got a co-worker who sweated the HDTV upgrade options for at least a year, maybe longer, before finally picking up a 43" Samsung DLP set last year. He's been very pleased with it for DVD, HD via digital cable, and standard definition digital cable. Since my circumstances have not been conducive to a rear projection set, I haven't followed the market as closely as many others have.

I own a 50" Samsung DLP and I've been quite pleased with it. The HLP 4674 and its big brother, the 5674, have the HD2+ chip while the other models (the xx63 series) this year have the HD3 chip. IIRC, the biggest difference is that the HD2+ has better contrast ratio. I'd try to view them side by side to see if you can see a difference. These sets have a native resolution of 720p. The next generation sets will have 1080p, due out this year or early next year (if you believe manufacturers' estimates).

Make sure you watch the set for awhile and make sure you're not one of the people who see rainbows with this technology.

There's a ton of information on these sets over at AVS forum.

I can vouch for the Philips 62" LCoS. I couldn't be happier with it so far. (knock on wood) Just realize that Philips is no longer making LCoS units and that Intel is getting out of the chip manufacturing. It's one of the reasons I went for the extended warranty even though I don't on most electronic purchases.

The upside is the price is coming down. I saw the 55" unit on sale at Best Buy a few weeks ago for $2250.

So who’s left to carry on? Mitsubishi?

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm because I know how exciting a purchase like this can be but I just gave up on digital rear projection. I've always been a RPTV proponent when it came to CRT sets so when the new digital sets started coming down in price with better resolutions I thought it was time to go shopping. That was about two years ago. I was initially drawn to the Samsung. It had a picture that grabbed you and they seemed like they were the value leader in giving you the most bang for the buck. Then as I got more serious about upgrading I started spending more time analyzing the picture and I started seeing an artificial texture overlaid on the image. It is most noticable on bright solid colored objects. It can look like fine grained sandpaper, even sparkling a bit like sunshine on fresh snow. It's one of those things that once you pick it up you can't stop focusing on it and it destroyed my enjoyment of the otherwise very good picture. By adding texture to distant objects it can fool your brain into thinking the object must be closer than it really is. To me, this ruins the three dimensionality of the image. It looks compressed front to back. Initially I thought it must be something inherent in the dlp technology but now I think it is a combination of the digital imaging combined with the rear projection screen material. Not too long ago I was in a store looking at a $4k digital RPTV and trying to decide if I could live with it and right above this set was a $2k CRT based HD RPTV about the same size with the same program material. While the CRT set didn't grab you with it's brilliant colors like the digital set did, the CRT was much more 3 dimensional and lifelike. It had more of that "looking out a window" feel to it. The digital set looked artificial by comparison. That's when I realized I had to expand the scope of my shopping. Front projectors have been coming down in price so I thought I should maybe take a look. After looking at a few "good" demos I immediately realized the false texturing was not due to the digital projection itself as much as it's implementation in a rear projection set. Last week I bought a BenQ PE8700+ front projector and am one happy camper. If front projection simply isn't possible for you I would reconsider a CRT RPTV. I know, I know, it's not as glamorous as one of those razzmatazz digital sets everyone is talking about but hey, it's all about the picture quality isn't it? My well tweeked 7 year old Toshiba RPTV still wows some people, even with standard definition. And the CRT based sets are at real bargain prices right now.

Yes, Tekdredger, I've noticed that too but I thought it was just my eyes. Thanks for the input.

I must agree with Tek. I started looking around last year at DLP and once I got past the animation that stores love to use to showoff their big screens, I realized that as nice and brilliant as the pictures were, that none of them (at least in my price range) seemed to produce colors in a realistic fashion, especially dark shades, which all seemed to somewhat run together. I started looking at CRT based RPTV's and was very surprised at the detail, the depth and richness of the colors, and the overall quality of the picture. I was never a proponent of RPTV, in fact I had pretty much dismissed it based on those I had seen over the years, but the new HD sets just blew me away. Since space was not a concern for me, and the CRT RPTV's picture was at least as good as the new DLP's I had seen, it came down to do I want a larger screen using old technology for less money, or do I want a smaller screen for more money but with the new technology. I ended up getting a 65" CRT based RPTV for cheap (relatively) and I am extremely satisfied. True, the thing is huge and heavy and the off axis vewing isn't as good as the new stuff, but watching movies and especially High Def is just phenomenal.

that texturing you are referring to, comes from the gridding system associated with pixels/points of intersection... this is a problem with all fixed pixel (pixel/cellular type) systems.

i would call it grainy, artifically so and not at areas where you typically see graininess (word??).

i have and still do like the overall picture of a crt lens based system for a big screen size. sharpness is less than some others, but the picture is more natural. thus i have a 65" rear projection Hitachi crt. there are better tvs i know, but i havent seen many that are much better for the same price range...

front projectors are going to be the solution in a few years... right now, traditional crt sets (glass monitors) are the highest quality, but for that increased quality you will sacrifice size (and budget for that matter).

lucky for us they are making some large leaps in tv quality these days.

No, that's not what I'm seeing. It goes beyond the pixel grid. And I see none of it on my new front projection system which is also a single chip dlp (HD2+). That's why I bought it. I'm convinced it's got more to do with the optical qualities in the rear projection screen material and diffusion lenses (perhaps in combination with the pixel grid on the higher resolution digital projectors). I think there is some diffraction taking place on a very small scale because sometimes these sparkly textures have a rainbow quality to them - like the sunshine on the snow that I mentioned. When I first noticed this I wondered if it was somehow related to the color wheel rainbow effect associated with single chip dlp's but since then I see the same/similar problems with lcd and lcos too, so it's probably not.

In a former professional life, I was dealing with some very high-end front and rear projection, CRT, LCD and DLP based. In rear projection, because the projected image is on a short-throw basis, the rear projection screen usually consists of two or three layers. The first layer the light passes through is a Fresnel lens consisting of many fine concentric rings, each ring just slightly different from its neighbors, to focus the original spreading light beam(s) consistently forward. Among other things, this helps avoid, as much as possible, the center ‘hot spot.’ The next layer is usually a black-stripe lenticular lens meant to spread the image horizontally, so that the viewing angle is improved and the brightness is as consistent as possible horizontally. Because these lenses are often large and easily deteriorate with abuse (even skin oils transferred from your fingers onto the Fresnel or lenticular lenses can be seen as bright or dark spots, depending on the viewing angle), there is usually a third protective layer closest to the viewer that can take standard touching and cleaning during normal use and, should something scratch it, this protective layer can be replaced at about 20% of the cost of the other two.

In any pixel based light controlling mechanism, the pixels generated do create their own grid, whether obvious or softened. The sizing of this projected grid can interact with the Fresnel rings and/or lenticular striping lens, creating a minor irregular moiré pattern. Because the two interfering grids are separated by some distance, just slight changes in viewing angle and/or light source can influence what is perceived.

The advantage that CRT based RP has in this area is that the projection is a series of horizontal lines, and the red, green and blue colors overlap rather than being neighboring pixels or sequential pixels. Only ‘three-chip’ LCDs and DLPs have overlapping color pixels, and these are more expensive because of the number of chips and the optical mechanism/alignment needed to properly overlap the three colors. Three chip LCDs still have a ‘screen door’ grid pattern. Three chip DLPs are expensive, which is why most are single or dual chip with ‘time sharing’ of pixel time divided by a color wheel. The increase in DLP standards usually means faster switching between colors more often to try to eliminate the ‘rainbow’ effect. Because the CRT lines are horizontal, the Fresnel lens is ringed and the lenticular lens striping is vertical, there are almost no ‘nearly aligned’ patterns to deal with. The downside is that these overlapping horizontal scan lines must be kept in proper alignment both in reference to the outside world and in reference to each other. The more critical the screen viewing, the better this alignment must be. Also, the phosphors fade out more gently than pixels turn off – sometimes an advantage.

Bottom line: each method has its advantages and pitfalls. This is certainly not a complete discussion in that regard.

When I watched a DLP with the cartoons it looked awsome. When the salesman turned regular old tv it looked horrible! I've found this to be true of the LCD and Plasma screen tv's also. It gets better with a digital signal and knocks your socks off in HD!

well said bestbang. dont mention the word alignment and rptv in the same sentences though, alignment is its enemy.

normal def. tv does suck on most hd sets (except some crt tubes) and never looks as good as it does on better analog sets.

Standard broadcast looks lousy on ALL HD TV's DLP, LCoS, LCD, Plasma and yes CRT. Simply put, they are made for HD or a really clean 480P signal, like from your DVD player.

I don't think standard broadcasts look any worse on HD sets per se, but they sure look like crap after watching HD broadcasts!

Granted about the quality of standard tv on HD sets. Unfortunatly, most of the medium available is still broadcast in standard def and should be considered when purchasing a TV.

Arn't all channels supposed to be broardcast
in HD in the very near future? When that time comes do you think HD tv's prices will increase or decrease. Is this grainy effect barely
noticable? Because in the stores I never noticed
it, although I didn't know about it to look.
I asked someone at my work w/ a 50" JVC DLP,
and he said he dosen't see this on his tv.

Just remembered, His JVC is LCoS type, if that means anything.

i wouldnt say that all channels will be HD in the very near future, maybe the term in future would be more accurate.

when that time comes, i think that there will be a new technology out there (extremeHD or whatever it will be called :-p), so yes HD tvs will come down in price. supply and demand holds true in electronics like everything else.

the effect is more noticeable on some sets than others, but it is evident with critical viewing. i guess it helps to know what to look for. dont just be wowed by how great HD is, it is pretty much that great on all HD sets. i.e. dont look at the whole picture, but look at parts of the picture checking for problems like we mentioned above. or color bleeding, jagged edges, hot spots, color saturation, black blacks, etc. watching some HD football on Fox will let you see the effect, just look at the grass when they are filming from a whole field perspective and panning...

I think the farther away your viewing distance is, the less you'll notice the grain effect. I'm at 10' and don't have a problem with it. (Meaning, I do see it, but it doesn't bother me. It's a very slight grainy texture.) HD still looks fabulous.

I believe the FCC was going to make HD broadcasts mandatory by the end of 2006 (or therebouts), however, they've backed off that a bit in the last year. There's a lot more programming in HD than there was last year and I expect that to continue. From a Dish standpoint, their problem is one of bandwidth. So I don't think you'll see them adding a ton of channels anytime soon. (Unless Dish or Direct TV buy up Voom to increase their bandwidth....and more than likely their fees.)

You'll find some programming on network TV every night that is broadcast in HD and with the 6 or so channels on the Dish, there's usually something to watch.

AT LEAST the major sporting events are HD... that in and of itself gives me my money's worth. it is a shame that networks are too lazy, err cheap to broadcast more HD programming though. the tv makers should give them incentives, so that they could sell more HD tvs and that way everyone wins (including consumers).

After looking at all tv available in the up to $3,500. range I finally found the one (at least that I like). Samsung HL-P5085W. This 50" is set on a built-in narrow stand that houses the projector and "guts". I didn't like the idea of having to live with this stand (I was planning on buying a nice wood furnature table stand), but with the projector mounted lower in the stand and the HD2+chip it makes this picture perfect. I watched HD basketball game, HD discovery and non-HD channels. All of the pictures looked GREAT! I watched this set against numerous sets and it was
the only one that I couldn't even find screen- door effect. You guys are right, most sets looked horribly grainy with the screen-door effect, but not the 5085. I was so impressed after watching for about an hour I can't imagine a better picture. Even the plasma's didn't look as good except for two that were over $6,500. Well waiting for delivery and I'll post again after it arrives. I noticed there's not too many good comments about dlp's and lcd's around in here, but if anyones considering...Check out this HL-P5085w.

I have the 61" Samsung DLP. It's the 2nd generation model HLN617W. It's fantastic. It is quiet, well-made and doesn't have the screen door effect.

I'm going to buy another one for the bedroom when they come out with the next 1080P chip from TI. I have a friend with the latest generation 50" Samsung and his is also flawless.

If you play alot of games and/or have kids I really recommend a DLP because it is impossible to burn in.

One other thing: it only weighs 105 lbs. so it is easy to setup and/or move around. We moved last June and I could fit it in our Honda Element with no problems.

Good luck,

talismax

I have the 56" Samsung HLP "Kirk Model" with the pedestal . I LOVE it .The picture is awesome and the HD is almost 3D. I have Voom so even Standard Def. Is not too bad. I have not had any problems with it but I did purchase the 5 year warranty and would recommend anyone else to do so too.

id recommend everyone to give me the money for their five year warranty and ill "hold it" for you. lol

i guess with a Sammie you never know when something weird will happen though.

I have heard they can be tricky but(knock on wood) no problems so far.