Even with Audyssey MultEQ XT32, there are some things Trinnov offers that Audyssey can't match. It has less to do with equalization and more to do with spatial remapping - Audyssey still doesn't have anything comparable to Trinnov's remapping function. It's that carrot dangling in front of us all that has probably kept Outlaw interested in a Trinnov-based Model 998 alongside the Audyssey-based Model 978.


Hard to say - I've read some things that suggest even some of the latest receivers and processors with DSX and PLIIz are only including eight-channel DAC's, which means you have to decide whether you'll use height channels or surround back channels. I'm going to wait to see what they actually offer before I assume anything.

I am familiar with that feature, but I have to wonder what practical application there is for it? And then there is the cost of Trinnov. I don't know what the licensing fees are, but ADA seems to be very ... proud .. of Trinnov and are really printing money selling it into the high end custom theater space.


That has indeed been the case. The first wave had that choice, but the second wave has nine main channel outs and the next wave ... at least in the top o' the line models ... will have eleven main channel outs.

Personally, I am fine with 9.2 as I cannot place Heights in my theater. And I might even be fine with giving up my rear surrounds as I have only a 7-ch main amp.

Jeff

Trinnov spatial remapping has the potential of simulating a near-perfect immersive soundfield from 5 imperfectly-placed speakers, which, in the real world, has tremendous practical application. Unfortunately, it has so far proved to be impossible to deliver these benefits in a bug-free consumer-grade AVR or pre/pro. And even if it proves to be possible, the iron-fisted control that Trinnov may need to exert to convey its benefits -- IIRC the SN R-972, once Trinnov EQ and 3D remapping are activated, permits no adjustments to crossover points, channel levels or tone settings, with no possibility of superimposing surround modes such as Dolby PLIIx -- will be a real turn-off for many.

I think it's great that Outlaw is planning to continue development work on the 998 once the 978 is released, but in the meantime I agree with you that they should consider the 978 to be the new Outlaw pre/pro, and equip it accordingly. I think the apparent excitement over the 978 has to do with the fact that Audyssey is a proven, well known commodity, and that the 978 now, finally, seems to be more than vaporware.

Do you know of anyone whose centre speaker is not at the same height as their L/R speakers due to display/screen constraints? Or their surround speakers aren't at the optimal angles due to room constraints? Just as level matching and time alignment can 'virtually' place all your speakers the same distance away, speaker remapping can have all your speakers placed at optimal height and angles.

Of course, how they go about doing this is what decide the usefulness of the feature. If part of the technology involves bleeding some discrete centre content into the L/R speakers in order to use phantom imaging to 'virtually' lift a low centre speaker, then that could lead to a less stable centre image for off-axis listeners.

Even just level setting with time delay is only ‘accurate’ at the position where the measurement microphone was placed. Some say a small improvement found in some systems allows multiple sampling points and provide settings that try to give each measured position a roughly equal compromise. Similarly for EQ: unless the listening space is either the middle of an anechoic chamber or all surfaces in all directions treat arriving acoustic energy in exactly the same way, system EQ is not perceived identically in all listening positions. Again, perhaps multiple sampling provides for reasonably good room average.

But if you’re talking about virtual speaker placement, there is no way to have all real or all virtual sound sources in the ideal positions for multiple listening positions. The user is going to have to determine what spot in the room is the center of speaker placement for listening purposes (even if that spot is not an exact symmetrical center of all the speakers’ placements). Listening at other positions may be improved by the use of Audyssey or Trinnov, but generally only one small zone gets the best of what is possible within whatever the system and room limitations are.

Even in professionally done home theatres with "all good seats", there will invariably be a sweet spot that sounds best (especially with regards to levels & distance settings). Nothing you can do about it for calibration, but the trick with EQing is to sample multiple seats/locations and address problems that are common to them. This way, fixing it in one location is beneficial to other seats.

i have a feeling there are many lurking (like me for instance) hoping that the audyssey package is indeed XT32. i am hoping against hope, however i think realistically that we are at least a year away from seeing the trickle down from anything but the "flagship" ($$$) AVR's.

The Denon 4311 and Onkyo 3008 list for $2000 and $2100 respectively, can be had for considerably less and include XT32, amongst many, many other features, including network connectivity and multi-channel amplifiers, all of which will be absent from the 978. I don't see any reason why XT32 in the 978 should be a pipe dream, especially at its anticipated (speculated?) price.

I'm with you, GaryB. And I want Audyssey Pro-ready along with XT 32.

Jeff

We have been agreeing a lot lately, haven't we?