Since the original announcement of the 997 then the 998 now the 978, when it comes to the mainstream companies and their ongoing product offerings, there has been a considerable sum of water that has passed under the bridge. Honestly speaking, the 978 will have to be quite impressive, virtually trouble free and offered at a very competitive price before I would consider it. There is just too many attractive options out there in the marketplace and for my self with TWO 7125s and some pretty sophisticated outboard video processing, the Marantz 5005 being offered on this very website used as a pre-pro would be more than adequate for my needs.

Hmm, let's see, 5005(which is available now) or the 978(possibly available at some point in the future and not knowing the features or the price).
The clock is ticking.

This has always been a challenge for Outlaw - there have always been lower-cost receivers available from larger manufacturers, often with comparable or even more up-to-date feature sets. The SR5005 does look to be a good candidate for a receiver-as-pre/pro.

The difference here, though, will most likely come from the significant discussion in Peter's post about audio quality (DAC selection, analog audio design, etc.). I am assuming that the Model 978 will cost more than the SR5005, but the expectation is that it will offer better sound quality. At that point, it is always a personal judgment call as to whether or not the extra cost can be justified by the audio quality.

Gonk, no doubt what you say is correct about Outlaw and the issues of new product announcements, however, in my case I already have had Marantz products in my set-ups for a number of years so I am quite familiar with their performance capabilities.

I guess the issue for many of us long-time Outlaw customers is that we are now on the THIRD new Pre-Pro product announcement in the last couple of years with still basically nothing concrete emerging from all this, so at some point, a decision must be made. As we have seen in recent times, two years is a lifetime in the consumer electronics business.

Will there be an upgrade path to go from the 978 to the 998? Will we get some kind of refund if we get the 978 and want to upgrade to the 998 when it comes out?

I wouldn't be too sure of that. I've never bought an Outlaw product but signed up for alerts and lurked here specifically because of Trinnov. Two other guys I know were also waiting with baited breath for the 998 for this reason. It's been a long frustrating wait between the Sherwood debacle and now this.

That being said, I don't blame Outlaw for putting this off. I'd be shocked if it ever came to pass. Trinnov is too complicated and way too expensive. The ADA TEQ is outboard and ridiculously expensive. It seems the only way Trinnov will work well is if it's ported over almost in its entirety.

My only problem with Outlaw is the impression they left with me as a potential new client. You sign up for alerts on a new product and end up inundated with emails about "exciting new partnerships". I don't want a Marantz, an Onkyo, speakers or a sub. As far as the 978 is concerned, Audyssey in some flavor is not what I was looking for and neither is 3D. Maybe the new DAC's will be a game changer? Can people actually hear differences between DAC's? Audiophiles say they can but isn't the associated circuitry just as important?

Chris

So... we 990 owners who have patiently waited thru the 997, 998 and now the 978 should get a $200 rebate times 3. A few more credits and we get one free.

Or maybe Lucy will just pull the football away again. Based on recent performance, I wouldn't be betting the farm.

Trinnov is clearly a significant challenge to integrate into a processor or receiver.


Outlaw has always been more than just a surround processor company, so which is why their announcements cover a wide range of products. That being said, I agree that the evolution of an Outlaw HDMI-based processor has been a difficult one for us all. I'm glad to hear that an Outlaw processor will arrive sooner rather than later, but I'm also glad that they haven't thrown in the towel on Trinnov.

Including 3D is a necessary move due to competition - the Model 978 and Model 998 will need to stay in production for two or three years, and an HDMI v1.3 processor would look rather silly in 2012 or beyond (even more so than it would in 2011). As for the analog performance, the DAC chips are the first step in developing a really good analog audio section. It's not the only step, but it's important. Once you get to a good analog section, everything beyond that starts to enter the realm of diminishing returns - but it can yield improvements, and people will perceive those often-subtle improvements in different ways. I've known some who would speak at great length to describe subtle differences in audio performance.

I have some experience with a separate stereo DAC and I'm very encouraged Outlaw is going to concentrate on audio performance in the 978. I can't describe the differences between DACs like the audio reviewers but I prefer my separate stereo DAC to the 990. So often the HT setup is also for music/stereo and a bump up in analog audio performance would be welcome.

The same could be said about the phono pre amp. IF there will be one in the 978 I hope that is another area Outlaw will improve over the 990.

I'm like many who see no value in 3D. I don't think you can get the real 3D effect unless it is "cinema" sized and that is not happening in my family room. But if it really takes hold (a significant number of well produced movies and sports on TV) it would be OK to have the capability in the 978.

But what I'd really like to hear more about is the 978's video processing and how flexible it will be. I still watch a significant amount of standard definition TV and DVDs. What will the 978/Anchor Bay Technologies do for those sources and how will the 978 work with my plasma?

This is a good question. The ABT2010 is a chip I've spent some time with and been quite happy with when used in conjunction with DVD's, but it does depend on the firmware implementation as well. The most likely Anchor Bay chip will be the ABT2015, which is similar to the ABT2010, so it should offer similar potential.

If your plasma is a "non-standard" resolution (the various flavors of 768p), my understanding is that it is prohibitively complex for the panel's native resolution to be supported (too many variations in timing and specific resolution). Some standalone video processors support it, but it's really hard to do - OPPO tried it with the BDP-83 during beta testing and concluded that there were too many problems. You'd probably need to use either 720p or 1080p (assuming the plasma accepts a 1080p signal).