Seems like someone should be making a box which accepts all the legacy inputs and outputs component, optical and maybe HDMI so it can be input to a pre-pro.

I thought about that, too, but even then I wonder how much market would exist for something like that. If it were simply a switcher (lots of composite and stereo analog inputs) with a remote control, it would be practical - such things already exist. If it also had video switching that could transcode composite to component or ADC's to convert analog audio to an optical output, that would be a more specialized product. The hardware would cost more to build, and the market interested in it would probably be smaller. That gets into the realm of folks like Zektor. Really nifty video switching gear, but also pretty darn pricey. The Clarity switch, for example, will handle many of these tasks (switching eight component inputs and three composite/s-video inputs to component output, converting analog audio to digital, and converting digital audio to analog). The 8x8 has eight outputs (component, stereo analog, and coaxial digital at each output). The 8x4 appears to have half the number of audio and video outputs, which would still be overkill for our case but not as much so as the 8x8. Costs aren't listed, but since the comparatively simple HDS4x2 costs $600, I wouldn't expect the Clarity to be cheap.

go and check the for s-video, the last i looked it supports 720x576 as a default resolution...

the issue with the external av switch is the availability to support RIHD, so it can be switch when not in use and is very much a flawed option ad you need direct line of sight to use it, not sure about the commercial market though most ir av switches you buy in the domestic market, don;t support this feature, sadly I don't own svhs vhs player I only got a oldie which only supports composite..

most of the commercial based units I hazard a guess wouldn't support rihd either..

it's just not a simple of writing macos eit5her

i'm trying to reduce power consumption as much as possible..

also note i'm already using multiple av switches, i'm trying to reduce power point use..

i was planning to use a extension cable for the controllers anyway..

anyway I was using console as an example anyway, I was trying to reduce the requirement for more points to cover the option of owning multiple network consoles

not mention the units that aren't networked..

while scart may be european, we're all not based in the US or Canada..

I only comment on scart because it may support hdmi resolutions that's all..


yup I think nintendo went more for the retro gamer market on its release of the wii..
when i get 1 i'll let you know what connection it has..

I am familiar with s-video. 576i is PAL, as I mentioned earlier. PAL is a video format used in Europe, basically the European version of standard definition. In the US, we use NTSC, which is approximately 720x480i. The 720 is the horizontal resolution, not the vertical resolution. It is not HD.


RIHD wouldn't help avoid line of sight for control. As I said before, RIHD is not an industry standard, which is why you are correct that no AV switches will support it. Neither will the TV, cable or satellite box, or a lot of otherwise very good disc players. I don't have any devices that use it. There are superior options that are manufacturer agnostic. The remote I mentioned is one - it can do a lot of things that a device with RIHD can't (including RF control that means you don't need to worry about line-of-sight). You can see my review of it here. I was serious when I described macros as a truly seamless solution to your problem. It is more capable than RIHD would be. These switches will also work fine with your VCR (composite video and stereo analog are covered). And if you really want to turn the switches off when the system is off, use the trigger output to connect to a power conditioner with switched outlets and turn them off when the processor is off. Even when/if they're on, you're talking about AC adapters that draw a tiny load - on par with the charger on the cordless phone sitting on my desk.


What sources do you have? I'm curious about the setup.


Networked? Not sure what you mean by that.


SCART is only used in Europe, and even there it isn't heavily used for HD. We are on a forum for a manufacturer that has no distribution network in Europe. SCART shouldn't be included on the Model 998.


I already listed the available options earlier. It comes with a cable that has composite and stereo analog. You can buy a cable with s-video and stereo analog or a cable with component video and stereo analog. I have one, and I'm using component video and stereo analog.

I never scart should be included I was using it as input source to tv as example.. with the amount of converter plugs on the market.... as I said I wasn't sure on scart resolution that's all


scart is a non issue anyway..

my current setup goes like this
tv av2
sony vhs
av switch 1
xbox1
ps2
cable box
jvc dvd player
n64

tv av2
av switch 2

snes
sony 5-disc dvd player
onkyo 6-disc dvd player

+ network switch
reducing 3 switches to 1 saves on using multiple 9-12 volt power paks to power them not to mention the power board real estate that consumes..

my ultimate gain is to loose as many switches as possible
a 3 output hdmi option allows me to extend to a secondary receiver for an outdoor entertainment area..

I want certain options when I fork out over $4,000AUD in a Processor/pre-amp

I want all bases covered if possible..

given most processor/pre-amps are usually no bigger in size to avr counterparts, I would like someone to design something for practical use not something that uses shared resources way to much.. which uses the either/or principle..

I want to see a processor/pre-amp have a greater shelf life than the 2-3 year until the great hype comes out.

for inbuilt network something similar to a cisco module could be used..

I think making the pre-amp/processor more modular in design makes for a better outcome for the end user.

actually go back to the design board, redesign the chassis to improve air flow, when everyone keeps using the same old ref design from existing models nothing will ever improve the use of it, always cramming shit into the smallest chassis possible isn't the way to go..

If I'm reading your list right, you have no surround processor or receiver at present and little or no HD gear in the mix. Is that correct?

There are four game consoles (one with optical audio output, two that can do component video, and two that can only do composite or s-video). There is a VCR (composite and stereo analog audio) and a cable box (non-HD, so s-video and optical/coaxial digital outputs are possible but not guaranteed). There are also three DVD players. That adds up to nine sources, although you could potentially consolidate down to seven if you reduced it to a single DVD player. It's a large system that is very video-centric (no pure audio sources). I'll take a shot at setting up this system with a Model 990 and minimal outboard switching (one switch, to be exact) assuming for the moment that the component video switching might be of value:

DVD: DVD player (Component-DVD for video and optical1 for audio)
Video1: Cable box (Component-Vid1 for video and coaxial1 for audio)
Video2: Switch1 (composite video and stereo analog audio)
Video3: VCR (composite video and stereo analog audio)
Video4: PS2 (Component-Vid2 for video and optical2 for audio)
Video5: spare
7.1 Direct: spare composite connection that could be used with the 7.1 Direct analog input

Switch1 Input1: XBox
Switch1 Input2: N64
Switch1 Input3: SNES

If the TV doesn't offer better than s-video or composite video inputs, all three component connections can be replaced with composite connections and the system still works as described. Likewise, the cable box can use stereo analog audio if there's no coaxial or optical digital output.

I'm going to make a possibly harsh prediction: the Model 998 may not have an input selection that is well suited to non-HD systems that employ numerous legacy video sources. To be competitive in the market today, it will need to be geared toward HD video and the sources that most often accompany HDTV - a good number of HDMI connections and some component video, with composite video and s-video being secondary. That is what drives today's surround processor market, and it reflects the systems that are most likely to end up with a $1000+ surround processor in the mix. On the bright side, the used market offers a wealth of really good older gear that can serve non-HD systems like that very, very well. Looking just at Outlaw, there's the Model 990 and the Model 950 (both of which have five or six composite/s-video inputs). There are also products from Anthem, Rotel, NAD, and others that have a wealth of analog audio inputs and healthy support for composite or s-video sources.


I've found two great tools for dealing with AC adapters. One is the PowerSquid. Another is a very short extension cord (even shorter than this one), although I can't find a source for a shorter one right now. Both let you put a bunch of AC adapters onto a single power strip without having to throw away half the outlets.

I question the value of three HDMI outputs for the reasons I've already described. HDMI isn't like the old analog video sources, and it doesn't split easily. If you have multi-zone HDMI, you are duplicating some very expensive components by doing so and most users won't use the duplicate pieces. There are more graceful options.


The problem we have is defining what "practical use" is for the majority of the customer base. I've operated a pretty complex home theater setup for quite a few years now (including a total of four or five disc players at one point), and aside from a year or so with an outboard HDMI switch I've never used any separate source switching. The people I know who have home theaters frequently operate with noticeably fewer sources than I have. For them, having ten video inputs is massive overkill. Having thirty is just silly...


What defines the end of its shelf life? The production life? The only way to keep a product in production for more than three years is to either upgrade it to the point where it becomes a new product (think Lexicon MC-12) or convince the entire industry to quite changing standards (think five versions of HDMI in seven years). Or is it the useful life? There are folks with Model 950's still happily chugging along, and the first 950's shipped about eight years ago. There are Model 990 owners still happy five years after it arrived on the market.


I question the value of integrating a network switch into a processor because it gets away from the point of separates, but others certainly feel differently. As for modular designs, it has been tried quite a few times - never with great success. In each case, the company has struggled to develop new daughter boards and support new technology, and customers have ended up with a product that can't grow and change but that cost them 50% more than a comparable product because of the extra engineering and production costs involved. No thanks.


Surround processors generally don't have problems with airflow and heat rejection, since all the major heat sources are the amp channels that are in a separate chassis. The Model 990 actually had a lot of free space under the hood and a pretty nicely laid-out rear panel.

given the stories I've heard on how hot hdmi boards get, adequate cooling is a must....

the option of onboard lan save space of having to deploy a external 16-24 port switch to cater for all the consoles I wish to add for lan and net gaming....
at the moment i'm looking at multiple 24 port switches for running iptv, ip phones and so forth throughout the home, I was trying to reduce aux switches for consoles that's all.. a inbuilt solution for networking is a practical solution for me..

sorry forgot to add the yamaha tss-10 to the mix for 5.1 soon to be replaced..

I know hdmi doesn't split easy, though it was just 1 option I was looking for, given what i've seen people do in regards to monitor displays in the ht arena.. If 2 hdmi out is possible I think 1 extra hdmi out should be possible bringing the total outputs to 3..

I'm looking at future proofing as much as possible..

i'm also looking for 11.3 setup aswell.

not sure if multi multichan out would be practical for me not many options for input as far as I know for analog use, going a digital spdif route would be my preferred route for matrixing 5.1-7.1 sound tracks where possible..

80 inputs to support 7.1 and 24 outputs to support zones 2, 3 and 4 probably wouldn't practical option for analog support..

eventually i intend to go the route of dvd stackers, given the size of my dvd collections..

What stories have you heard about heat from HDMI boards? Also, have you heard of or seen instances of HDMI boards having insufficient ventilation space? I ask because I tend to be more aware of these sorts of issues than most (keeping things cool happens to be my day job), and in the hierarchy of heat-producing components inside AV equipment, I would put HDMI boards down around analog audio and video boards. That leaves them at the very bottom of the list. Audio DSP and video processing chips are probably the highest heat-generating components in a surround processor, with the power supply probably a close second and everything else way down the list. Even those are cool-running compared to the real heat sources in a surround system. The biggest heat-generating sources in a home theater system are the display (LCD, plasma, and CRT all make pretty good space heaters) and audio amplification. HDMI chips simply don't put off that much heat. I'd also offer the observation that Outlaw's designs have historically done a good job of managing heat rejection. They are already thinking about it properly.


A switch does take up some space, but it's going to take up almost as much space when it's tucked inside the surround processor's chassis as it will separately. It will also bring 16 to 24 additional cables to the most congested point in your system wiring. A separate network switch, on the other hand, will allow for more effective cable management and will take up a modest amount of space compared to the 10 or more game consoles you are describing. Combine those facts with the fact that probably 99% of Outlaw's customer base will need either no network switch support at all or at most a four-port or five-port solution (something that is easier to fit into an equipment rack when needed), and you can see why I am opposed to any sort of integral network switch - doubly so for a 16-port switch.


The TSS-10 is a very basic HTIB ("home theater in a box") with no video switching, one analog stereo input, and two optical digital audio inputs. It is a radically different animal from what we are discussing. It does cram a ton of stuff into as small a box as possible. There are six channels of amplification - including the sub - in a 3.75"x11"x8.25" box along with the audio switching, audio DSP, DAC's, and an ADC for the stereo input. Contrasts to the Model 990 (and thus presumably the Model 998 as well) are countless. About the only thing the two products have in common is the fact that they output sound.


Two HDMI outputs is possible, but most manufacturers are implementing them as an "either-or" arrangement, not two that are simultaneously active. They also aren't implementing any sort of second zone HDMI output. These decisions are made for practical cost-related reasons. Adding a third output would be an "either-or-or" design. It isn't practical.


The industry hasn't adopted a standard for 11.3 yet, so you may be looking at a need to update your system again in the future when it does happen. That is in the running to be the next "great hype" we'll see (something you were complaining about last night), but considering how little interest there has been from studios to produce 7.1 tracks on Blu-ray I suspect that any 11.x systems will be relying on matrix surround processing to expand 5.1 and 7.1 sources to the extra channels.


Multiple multichannel output zones isn't really practical for anyone. An implementation like that is going to need lots of amps, a space issue that you may not have been factoring in yet. It would also be easier to control if you had separate multichannel processors or receivers for each multichannel zone, assuming you need those zones.

SPDIF is limited to 5.1 lossy compression. You are likely to be more interested in HDMI as a source, at least for new sources like Blu-ray. This is because it supports 7.1 audio and lossless audio (multichannel PCM, TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio). However, most of the sources you have been discussing to date have been legacy consoles that only offer analog stereo audio. Debate over optical, coaxial, and HDMI connections (to say nothing of previous interest in DenonLINK) don't even enter the equation. Analog stereo is simply not that widely used in modern home theaters, so manufacturers aren't going to be able to justify putting lots of stereo analog inputs on their processors. At the most, we might see a quantity similar to what is found on the Model 990 or Model 970. There may even be fewer.


The problem I see is that the system you are contemplating is extremely atypical. Cable box and DVD changer are normal enough. A couple or three game consoles are also fairly common. Everything else on your list is unusual to such a degree that no manufacturer can design around them. Likewise, 11.3 is not yet an industry standard and multiple multichannel zones are impractical because they require building multiple separate surround processors into a single chassis.

yes I know the tss-10 is htib, I'm looking to replace it

the onkyo dvd player support hdmi

yes I know what I talk of seems a odd features set

though I don't expect to fill in 1 go restricted the current 5-6

With the amount devices in the market and soon to be released to the market..

given what I seen joytech come up with in the past av network switched..

it would be a nice option to see added to the processor line..

make the chassis higher and make the unit a plug-in modular design gives the option of expansion over time..

going the modular route gives the option to add component that you wouldn't commonly see as a integrated component which expands the feature set the unit has..

as for Denon link, I thought having something in place that can function like DL might be a good feature to have that's all.. I think you misunderstood analogue 5.1-7.1 while it's nice to have it, though I think it is overkill to support it, 2-3 yes across 10 no..

the 11.3 is for IIZ that's all,,