I just bought a Samsung PN58C8000 and got free the Samsung BD-C6900 http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/tv-vi...il&tab=spec and a review here http://reviews.cnet.com/blu-ray-players-...tml?tag=rvwBody

I have the 990 and up to now had my Directv HR24, Direct Tivo, and Oppo 970 running via component to the 990 so it was doing all the switching. Now after getting the Samsung C8000 which does 3D I need to run both the HR24 (Directv 3D channels) and the 6900 BR directly to the tv via HMDI (Tivo and Oppo are still running via component to 990).

Since I have a MX-810 running Activity macros with some video sources going through the 990 and some directly to the tv it's really not that big of a deal. All audio is going through the 990.

Okay would I be better served just using the optical out of the BR, or since it has 7.1 analog outputs (TrueHD etc.) using that? Would the analog outputs make a huge difference?

Do I understand correctly that if you used the BR 7.1 analog outputs then you would be relying on it to handle bass management which probably isn't as good as the 990? Maybe other disadvantages I haven't thought of?

I had always planned on buying the Oppo 83 as my first BR but it doesn't do 3D and I got the 6900 for free. I always liked the fact that the Oppo 83 did a great job handling regular Dvds so if it can be updated to 3D or Oppo releases a new 3D BR I still might consider one of those.

I really don't know how well the 6900 does upconversion compared to other BR's (not counting the Oppo 83).

I suspect that the 990's DVI switching could very likely switch 3D video from HDMI sources to an HDMI display, although I haven't heard of anyone trying it...


The question ends up being which sounds better: TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio using the Samsung's analog section, or the lossy DD/DTS core track via coaxial/optical using the 990? I would tend to prefer to use the analog section and have access to the lossless audio, but depending on how cheap the Samsung's analog section is I can't rule out the possibility of the lossy core tracks matching up well under the circumstances...


In most cases, that would be true, but the 990 is a bit different. I will assume that you have at least some speakers set to "small" on the 990. In that case, the 990 will apply digital bass management to the 7.1 analog input. You want to disable any bass management or channel delay in the player, as the 990 will do that for you. My BDP-83/990 setup guide covers the basics of this, even when not using the BDP-83 or BDP-80.


The BDP-83 won't get upgraded to 3D, as it would involve a hardware change. There's no word yet on what OPPO might have up their sleeve regarding a 3D-capable successor...

Gonk I may be wrong but from what I understand a A/V processor needs to be able to handle HDMI 1.4 in order to pass 3D I didn't think the 990 could do that (didn't buy the C8000 for 3D but since it's included I might as well play with it).

Didn't really figure any main stream manufacturer's BR would have a good analog section but maybe technology allows for this so will give it a try. Is there a 5.1 wiring harness available for this?

I had to go check if I had any speakers set to small since all mine are rather large but apparently when I set this up a couple of years ago I chose all small plus subwoofer. I'll read your setup guide for the 83/990.

I emailed Oppo a couple of weeks ago asking if any of their BR's could be updated to 3D and he said they were looking into that but it didn't look promising, I only asked because Sony BR's and PS3 can be upgraded to 3D via firmware. Since I got the 6900 for free I might still get the Oppo 83 sometime unless it's getting a little dated, or Oppo comes out with something comparable.

HDMI v1.4 is not required to pass 3D. You need to have enough bandwidth and a signal path that doesn't misinterpret the video signal and mangle it somehow. HDMI and DVI switching options have been around for a while that offer the bandwidth required. If your unit uses HDMI and is manipulating the video at all, it needs to know what to do when it encounters 3D (which would probably be "leave it alone and repeat the signal to the output). Neither of those force you to be using HDMI v1.4 transceivers, although the presence of v1.4 should be the best indicator we will have for a product that should support 3D. (It's still not a guarantee, as in theory you could use v1.4 chips and have a video section that can't handle a 3D signal.) The problem with feeding 3D through non-v1.4 gear is telling which products can handle a 3D signal. Because the 990's DVI switching is simply a switch, it doesn't care what the video signal is. As long as there's bandwidth to pass the full 3D signal (which I think it very possible), it should be able to do it. As I say, though, I don't think anybody's tried it yet.


The best way to do 5.1 analog is just to get six analog audio cables or three pairs of analog audio cables. Folks like Blue Jeans Cables and MonoPrice offer them in packages.


Even for very physically large speakers, small is usually the best setting to choose (along with a good choice of crossover point).


The PS3 is basically a little HTPC with plenty of processing horsepower, so they have been able to develop 3D support for it. The standalone players that are getting firmware updates to enable 3D were designed from the ground up for 3D and were simply released before the 3D firmware was ready. The BDP-83's hardware was finalized in late 2008, long before anybody was even thinking about adding 3D to the BD spec. My expectation is that we won't see 3D support on an OPPO player until they release a player designed around the new 3D spec. It's very possible that just such a player is in development, but we've not heard anything about it yet.

Thanks Gonk for all the info!

Monoprice is my favorite place to buy cables but to me their Premium connectors on their A/V cables don't always fit tight on some equipment even though they certainly seem to be high quality (regular connectors not near as nice).

1. Should you use 5 identical cables from say Monoprice or would you notice any difference using different audio cables you might have on hand?

2. Can Component cables be used for audio I actually have a couple not being used?

3. Looked over your setup guide for the 990/83 but noticed the 6900 doesn't have near the settings the Oppo has. Do I understand correctly that all the speakers in the 6900 speaker setup should be set to large and subwoofer on?

4. There is a test tone button to set up the speakers but I'm assuming I don't use it since the 990 does that correct? I don't see anything about distance or trim.

5. Are you saying in your guide that you should have both 5.1 analog outputs and Coaxial/Optical digital outputs hooked up at the same time?

1. I prefer to use the same cables, or at least similar ones. I'm using two pairs of Blue Jeans component video cables and a couple random Blue Jeans cables (either analog audio or a portion of a third component set, don't recall which) for 7.1 from the BDP-83 right now.

2. See above - component video will work for analog audio.

3. Yes, set speakers to large and sub to on. That will make sure the player doesn't apply bass management (which can be rather random on players - weird fixed crossovers, etc.).

4. Yeah, I wouldn't bother with the player's test tones. As long as distances and trims are left at zero (if there are any - there may not be such adjustments), speakers are large, and sub is on, the player should not interfere with the signal.

5. You can. In the past - with DVD-Audio and SACD players - I've usually recommended it because coaxial and optical were still the better choice with DVD. For players that don't have a particularly robust analog section, coaxial or optical can still be the better connection choice for DVD's, CD's, media files, and BD's that lack a lossless track. It lets you feed digital audio straight to the 990. The BDP-83's analog section is good enough that many folks who have paired the BDP-83 and Model 990 have simply chosen to use the analog output all the time because the two pieces of gear have quite comparable analog sections, which tells you something the BDP-83's stock analog section. If you are going to use the Samsung for discs over than Blu-ray, having a digital connection would be a simple and cheap step (possibly free, if your supply of spare cables is anything like mine).

Okay I've decided to use the analog 5.1 outputs of the 6900 BR (HDMI directly into tv) which go into the 990 5.1 inputs then I set to 7.1 in the 990 menu?

Now if I want to use the 6900 for cds I run optical into the 990 and set to whichever optical input I've selected in the 990 menu, video can be anything.

The 6900 has three options "PCM", "Bitstream", and "Bitstream Audiophile" I selected PCM so this will work for both the 5.1 and optical outputs?

You will connect the 6900's 5.1 analog output to the 990's 7.1 Direct input (ignoring the back surround inputs since you don't have 7.1), and you will select the "7.1D" input on the 990's remote to use that input. If you are still bypassing the 990 for video and taking the 6900's HDMI output straight to the TV, you don't need to worry about setting the 7.1 Direct input's assigned video input (which can be the 7.1D composite input, either DVI input, or any of the three component video inputs).

For CD or DVD playback from the 6900, I'd set up an input for optical (or coaxial). If you do decide to try the 990's DVI switching with the player's HDMI output, you would want to use one of the Video inputs so you could assign the DVI connection to it. You'd also assign the same DVI connection to the 7.1 Direct input. If you bypass the 990 with video, you can use any input.


The 5.1 analog output is unaffected by those options - it is decoding and converting to analog no matter what you choose there. The optical output will need to be set to bitstream. Some players have separate settings for HDMI audio and coaxial/optical audio output, as the two really should be controlled separately. If those three options apply to coaxial/optical, I have no idea what the "bitstream audiophile" choice is - it's a bizarre label. I'd probably use "bitstream."

Gonk the only settings for Audio in the 6900 are:

Digital Output - PCM, Bitstream (Re-encode), Bitstream (Audiophile)
PCM Downsampling - On, Off
Dynamic Range Control - Auto, On ,Off
Downmixing Mode - Normal stereo, Surround Compatible
DTS Neo:6 - Off, Cinema, Music
Speaker Setting

Here's the manual - http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/tv-vi...amp;tab=support page 35,36,37 mentions the settings and there is a chart which I don't quite understand. Maybe it's not meant to use both 5.1 and optical with this player?

I still have the Oppo 970 I used for playing cds although wasn't sure if I was going to leave it hooked up or not but I could if using the Samsung for cds is going to be a problem.

They've created a single digital audio setting for both HDMI and optical output. It's "simpler" but also less clear than handling them separately, at least in my opinion. Here's what's happening:

Digital Output=PCM: The player decodes everything and outputs PCM digital audio. That means that optical output gets PCM stereo only, as that's the most channels of PCM it can handle.

Digital Output=Bitstream (re-encode): The player decodes everything from Blu-ray and re-encodes it as DTS, then outputs the new DTS bitstream via both optical and HDMI. For DVD and CD, it passes the original bitstream.

Digital Output=Bitstream (audiophile): The player outputs the original bitstream for everything via HDMI. For optical output and Blu-ray, it passes PCM as PCM stereo and outputs the core Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream from lossless audio tracks. For optical output and DVD or CD, it passes the original bitstream.

You could use either of the bitstream outputs. I might actually use the Bitstream (re-encode) option, as it would be an interesting way to compare the player's analog section with lossless audio to the 990's analog section with a high-bitrate DTS re-encode.

The 5.1 analog output will work fine no matter what you do with this setting...

Gonk you do such a great job explaining things in detail I'll use the Bitstream (re-encode) option you suggested. Many thanks you're the best!

Just for future reference in case anyone is interested from Scott, "Unfortunately, the Model 990 (or HDMI 1.3 and earlier processors) are not able to pass the 3D signal."

That's a very useful bit of information.

At this point in the roll-out of 3D, we still don't have much definitive information on how HDMI video compatibility is going to work with existing receivers and processors. If it proves as widespread as it could be (which would be along the lines of what Scott reported above), people with HDMI v1.3 gear could find themselves with a real compatibility issue. BD3D players would need to offer one of two things to allow 3D video output and lossless audio output: either two HDMI ports, or one HDMI port and a multichannel analog output. So far, very few BD3D players have two HDMI outputs and multichannel analog outputs are also rare.

Yeah I believe of the first generation BD3D players Panasonic is the only one having a model with 2 HDMI outputs and while Samsung just released some second generation players only their most expensive model has 2.

I got everything hooked up today and while I don't own a Blu-ray movie yet (not counting free 3D Monsters and Aliens) I'm so impressed with how the Samsung 6900 handles upconverting dvds. I read a couple of reviews claiming how it's upconverting was very close to the Oppo 83 but whether that's true or not it's shocking what it does with dvds.

I've been using a Oppo 970 so maybe all newer dvd players or BD players trounce it but compared to the Samsung it's a night and day difference (and that's with the Oppo firmware hack you helped me with).

The Samsung 6900 makes my dvds look close to what I'd image a good Blu-ray movie to be like so I know I'm in for a treat when I actually get to watch one.

Gonk a quick question on 7.1 vs Optical I have both connected to the Samsung 6900.

On Blu-ray movies I know I need to use 7.1 but on regular dvds am I supposed to be using Optical? I noticed for instance with the Avatar Dvd it sounded pretty dang good using 7.1 but theoretically should Optical sound better with dvds?

Either one will work, but optical may sound better. For players that don't have a particularly robust analog section, coaxial or optical can be the better connection choice for DVD's, CD's, media files, and BD's that lack a lossless track. The benefits of optical are the analog section (using the 990's DAC's instead of the player's) and more surround processing options (Pro Logic IIx, etc.).

Well I'll just stick with the optical then with dvds just have to come up with another "Activity" for my MX-810 currently I have "Watch Blu-ray" which uses the 7.1 outputs (or just copy and paste both commands to that Activity). I gotta say the Monsters and Aliens Blu-ray disc with lossless using the 7.1 outputs does sound amazing!

Briefly comparing the 7.1 outputs vs the optical outputs using the Avatar dvd both sounded awfully good, the sound levels were different though so a little hard to tell.

Sorry for all the questions Gonk but they keep coming up! Since I got a new Plasma I had to rearrange the location of my center speaker so I thought I would re-run the auto speaker setup on the 990. Don't know if I had this same issue before (been 4 years since I ran it) but after running I get message "Due to small front speakers and large surround speakers after turning power off interchange front and surround speakers and try again". Below are my settings on my 990:

Front L/R - Small (60Hz)
Center - Small (80Hz)
Surround L/R - Small (80Hz)
Surround Back L/R - None
Subwoofer - Yes

Since I'm getting this message it doesn't read out the settings at the end so I can save them any ideas?

I've encountered thaat set-up problem a few times. you might try adjusting the crossover settings fo all of your speakers down to about 40 befor you run the automatic set-up.

Thanks Koyaan that seemed to work!

Gonk, Thanks for the BDP-83, 990 setup guide. Quite informative. I'm assuming I could use the same settings for my 1070 and BDP-80?

For those two, the 970/1070 and BDP-83 guide may be better. The BDP-80's settings are very similar to the BDP-83's.