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I still think this is a very attractive idea. Both with conventional and PWM powersupply.
If it is made a monobloc like fex the Linn 500, this thread can be merged with 2 ch amp ( that became a monobloc )

Anders, did not see your ‘Congrats” till today. Thanks very much, I love being an Outlaw. I’d be lying if I tried to say I’m not tickled that I skinned in just under the 950’s halted ship date. But I really do feel for those still waiting. Been there, done that, not enjoyable.

I could have, got this/got that many times over. Still very glad I ‘got’ the 950.

I hope that the reputed lower costs to the manufacture, of producing Digital amps, (If you don’t have to spend wads on research/development) will attract a Co. like Outlaw,..looks right up their alley since they can 'take' the lower CPU, and due to their positon of direct sales, not have to inflate the markup for a cutting edge piece once the general engineering principles are readily available in the industry.

You´re welcome Lena. You are a little slow, but I suppose it will have to do. Nice to have you up there with the big guys. To keep them straight.

Are there any concrete thinking lines on this digi - stuff yet or is it all on a " study - level " for now?

As far as Outlaw is concerned, I have no idea if they have any interest in going that way with their line someday or not. There are digital amps on the market today, but your talking high dollar stuff. When I first started looking into HT, I ran into Bel Canto, and TacT. My memory’s vague but I think TactT had a 10 thousand sticker, with a ‘baby brother’ coming out soon, which would be marketed for less. I almost went with the Bel Canto line (a little less pricey). But backed off because I was too ‘newbie’ to be mucking with those prices, in an area in which I had so little knowledge and grasp of the ‘big picture’. Plus I LIKE getting technology for the least money. That’s why I’m an Outlaw..more bang for the buck. My Sony was a splurge cause I love my husband and he loved IT. I was very strict with myself buying computer guts, 2nd, 3rd generation and gloating over my savings. I need to get myself in hand because right now sometimes I get impatient and just buy what I can get my hands on TODAY. (Not my usual Modus Operandi either, but I’m strapped for time and gone a little nuts on A/V).
Azryan just purchased an eARTwo I believe he researched past the point I dropped it, so I’m not familiar with his. I think he’s hoping (as I) that Outlaw gets into them. It’s really an old concept, or as you wish, was a concept before its time. I think in the UK someone built one in maybe the 50’s or 70’s? But while the specs looked great in theory, the sound was not. With this new resurgence of manufactures starting to build them, the sound has improved and should continue that route. I think many of the orginal problems are licked.
Put any of the names listed in Aryzan’s post in your search engine and you can see the current crop. Don’t faint at the prices!
PS: I also dropped shopping a digital amp for me, because I wanted a digital 7.1 (multi-channel) amp, but last I looked no one had done that yet.(HINT HINT to Outlaw) You mainly see monoblocks or 2 channels.

[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited August 01, 2002).]

I've had the eARTwo amp now for a while and it's just stellar! So liquid, smooth, dynamic, transparent, ect... it's amazing!

I really hope Outlaw makes a universal DVD player soon so I can play SACD and DVD-A through it!
My CD's sound great though. You can really tell the production value of every recording, but all my CD's sound far better than before -and no offence Outlaw, but the 950 isn't the world's best front end, so my CD's still have yet to be fully maxed out in my system.

It's certainly the digital amp to beat as it's been called far far better than the PS Audio HCA-2 by two diff. audiophile posters -which in it's own right has been k.o.ing the likes of Bel Canto's eVo, TacT, and holding it's own against some fairly high end stuff on it's own.

The eAR amps use the analog version of the ICEpower digital amp module (the only company to use this so far).
Designer Peter Thomsen could have used the digital input version (and easier in fact), but the specs of the raw ICEpower module aren't that stellar on their own (though better than all other raw digital amp modules) and his modification etc.. (whatever else is in the amp) changes the ICEpower output to almost zero distortion and zero noise throughout it's bandwidth.

I can place my ear to the metal grill covering my ribbon speakers and the noise is incredibly faint.
It's greatly improved the random 'HISS' problem of my 950 too. I may not bother to send the 950 in for a 'fix' when it becomes available.

Like all other digital amps it's faster and more dynamic (due to the speed) than any solid state or tube amp can ever be.
Linear from milliwatts to full power output (analog amps will change their sound).

Unlike all other digital amps it does not use PWM or damaging triangle waves in the signal.

I don't really get the technical paper (from the ICEpower web site) if you want to read more about it, but several audiophile/E.E.'s have said that this is the main thing holding back all other digital amps from being as smooth and natural (typically called 'musical') as the best of the best analog designs.

Among them Stan Warren -the former 'S' in PS Audio (who's Supermods business is probably the best deal/best kept secret in Hi-Fi along w/ Acoustic Reality's amps/speakers).

Check out the reviews on www.harmonicdiscord.com (under the gen. forum) for lots of owner's responses to the eAR amps -all of which basically summed up as -'best amp they've ever heard'.

Direct and very detailed comparisons to Theta, Krell, BAT, TacT, PS Audio, etc...on very high end gear.

Acoustic Reality just raised the price of the 300W x 2 (600W @ 4 ohms) eARTwo from $3,000 to $3,500. I tried to warn people this was gonna happen though. Sorry, but that's still very low seeing as it's killer everything in it goes up against IMO (not that I could afford one at that price).

They have a 110W x 2 (220 @ 4ohm) eAR250 for $2,000.

And in Sept.they're releasing a stainless steel tower version of these amps in 5, 6, or 7 chan.
$999 a channel. Yeah, not cheap compared to Outlaw's 7 Chan. monster, but you all know the prices of many very high end amps, and I suspect very close in price to PS Audio's up coming multi chan. digital amp.

Note -PS Audio's new Classic 250 (250W x 2) is $5,000 -much more than the eARTwo, and the Classic isn't even digital like their HCA-2.

Peter says that his lower powered eAR amps sound very close to the same sound of the 300W x 2 eARTwo.
I'd be inclined to fully believe this since they're basically the exact same design just using a lower powered ICEpower module and smaller power supply.

Lena, if you're waiting for a multi chan. digital amp w/ a digital input, I HIGHLY rec. you look into the eAR multi chan amps.

It's trounced the $10K TacT amp which DOES use a pure digital input. The TacT was reviewed by a Danish Hi-Fi mag who's ref. amps were the $30K (each) Mark Levinson no. 33's. It did not beat it.
Recently that mag's reviewer named the $3,500 eARTwo his new ref. amp.

'ehider' on HDforum has also listened to the TacT amp and said it's still processed sounding compared to his former reference custom made solid state amps (which he feels are better than Theta, Krell, etc...), but his new ref. amps are the eAROne monoblocks.

Since the eAR amp's modulation method is analog controlled (but still digital pulses to open on/off the output MOS FET transistors)it does not need or would not be improved by having a digital input.
The process was patented by B&O in '97, so NO OTHER digital amp method does anything like this.

I'm all for digital connections, but this amp's so revolutionary and incredible sounding, I have no problem having an analog input on it.

The best sounding pre amps are analog/passive anyway, so pure 100% digital doesn't always mean better.

The eAR amps have balanced inputs too, but I can only use RCA plugs because the 950 doesn't have balanced outs.

I'm hoping the new Outlaw pre/pro will come out w/ a universal player and have a firewire B connection between the two and balanced outs (along w/ Outlaw coming out w/ balanced cables of course).

The amazing thing is that amps are just 'gain' to the preamp's line level (unless their very colored tube design greatly imparting their own sound).

The better the amp, the less damage it causes the signal whereas most people say "it's a better sounding amp" (as I often do).
So the amazing sound I'm hearing now is not the eARTwo, but the 950's signal just more undamaged than it's ever been amped before, and it's AWESOME.

[This message has been edited by azryan (edited August 02, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by azryan (edited August 27, 2002).]

Lena: It hurts me to hear that a tv set can compete with you at home. To me, you seem to be a wonderful person. Your husband should have his ass kicked!

I don´t really understand the hesitation of Outlaws and other firms. This technology is available now!

The power modules powering Azryans eARTwo are available here:

http://www.medicom.bang-olufsen.com/sw1029.asp

This is another module that has got great reviews in Scandinavia and is available for DIY:ers for $300 for a 2 ch kit. Tey are, to the best of my knowledge, available as OEM:

http://www.lcaudio.dk/com/index.html

This is yet another example:

http://www.tripath.com/0105_data.htm

If you really are an Outlaw you could at least point out these possibilities for the guys in charge and have them ordering some evaluation boards to play with. Do it today, while this is still new.

This is not the future. This stuff is on the market now!

With best regards
\\Anders



[This message has been edited by AndersP (edited August 05, 2002).]

Dear Anders, not to worry.
You see, I have perfected the execution of a movement, all the guys around here refer to as THE RING.
The current perpetrator gets my hand breezed across the top of his head, and I always manage to drop the finger with the largest ring on it. (Makes for great LFE ringing through a skull).
If I ever stepped in front of the TV, desiring his attention. he’d never dare try to ‘look round’.
Seriously I have to state I rate above the Sony, which I know is high complement from a male!

It´s not high complement Lena and you know it. Nevertheless, go easy with the RING.......OOUUUCH!!!!

I've been doing a bit more reading and it seems that the "we like tubes and we don't measure anything" crowd likes the digital amps but most of them don't really measure well at all in regards to noise and distortion.

Any truth to it?

Charlie

What are you talking about?

http://www.lcaudio.dk/zpwhitepaper.PDF

Seriously, ok, it is as you say, but as you know, in the last 20 years there has been this discussion about measurements vs. experienced sound quality. There are some distorsion that is audible, some that is not and yet some that sound good and so on.
Many audiofiles still play 12 inch vinyl disc on a platter driven by a motor via a rubber cord. The low level signal is then heavily equalised and amplified.
How do you think this measures?