Hi.

First post, However, I have done several hours of reading here!

As someone who has loved Audio, since way before there was a thing called HT, I really like the concept of a Direct to customer Internet company. Give me High end at moderate prices! I have often said, that even if I win a small lottery, I will probably never have my "dream" HT system! (It would take a large lottery!)

While I am still researching my options, Outlaw Electronics, and Axiom Speakers are on my "very short list" of finalists. (Both direct to Consumer companies) (And yes, I am considering a few "high end" recevers, ones that would be considered in the price range of the 1070 or the 950/7100, but with respect to Outlaw, I will not mention what I am considering)

While I am looking at both the 1070 or a 950/7100 combo, so each question is independent of each other.

1. The 950 is about 2 years old. Does it support DVD-A and SACD? What is it missing, that modern day receivers have (signal processing wise). My current receiver is about 5 years old, and does not have DTS, SACD or DVD-A, and some of the other newer DTS and Dolby formats. Very happy with the sound output, but need to replace it because of all the new formats. I do not want to spend big bucks, only to have it outdated in 2 years!

2. The new, yet unreleased 1070. While final specs are still unreleased, the specs are 65WPC contiounous, driveing all 7 channels at the same time. (I have read all about the NAD style of amp building, and real world measurements of the outlaw). Question, if I drive LESS channels, all things being equal, will there be MORE power available to each channel? For instance, if I ONLY used the 1070 to drive my Center, and Left Rear, and Right Rear speakers (3) would more power be availabe to those three speakers?(you will see where I am going with this on q 3!)

3. One of the finalists in my speakers, is the Axiom M80's for my Front Stereo Speakers. Just FYI, before I decide, I am going to need to be convinced that the M80's produce BETTER, CLEARER, MORE ACCURATE sound, not just MORE sound! These guys need power, as they ar 4 Ohms. Could I take the 1070, and use the 1070's amp to drive everything BUT the M80's, and get two Model M Block 200 watt mono amps to run the FL and FR speaker? How does one equalise the sound?

4. I realise this last question is not really known, but anyone know ABOUT when the "replacement" will be out for the 950? Not looking for a date, but just "end of this year", spring of next year, cold day in hell, etc!

5. What is "Analog and Digital Base Managemet"?

To give you more info as to what I am looking for, I am not looking for LOUDER sound, I am looking for more accurate, cleaner, crisper sound, and music. AND, all things being equal, spending LESS money is always better than spending MORE money!

Thanks for all your help.

Let's see if I can answer some of these questions...

1. Yes, the 950 does support DVD-Audio and SACD. Keep in mind that you must have a DVD player that supports the formats, which you must then connect to the 950 with a set of six analog audio cables. Until very recently, this was the only way to connect DVD-A or SACD players (due to concerns from RIAA about allowing a digital audio output, which could have allowed for perfect digital copies of these formats). There is an emerging digital interface which uses IEEE 1394 (FireWire, or iLink), but so far it hasn't become available on pre/pros. There are a few flagship receivers that use it, and an equally small number of DVD-A/SACD players.

The 950 offers Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS, DTS:ES, DTS:NEO6, and proprietary surround back channel format called Cirrus Extra Surround that is compatible with any 5.1 processing mode. The only processing modes that are available today that the 950 lacks are THX (which is omitted from nearly all pre/pros under $2000) and Pro Logic IIx (which is relatively new). Personally, I don't see any problem with leaving THX off. Pro Logic IIx is an extension of Pro Logic that is similar to Cirrus Extra Surround but generates discrete left and right surround back channels -- Dolby EX, DTS:ES, Outlaw's CES, and nearly all other proprietary surround back modes produce a mono signal that is sent to both surround back channels.

I noticed that in your next question, you mentioned only driving five speakers (mains plus center and surrounds). It's worth remembering that Dolby EX, DTS:ES, CES, and Pro Logic IIx only work with a 6.1 or 7.1 speaker setup.

2. I don't know if Outlaw will provide ratings for five (or three) channels driven or not, but there should be more power available at least as far as headroom is concerned.

3. The 1070 will include pre-amp outputs for all seven channels, so it would be entirely possible to drive your mains with M200's and leave the other speakers on the 1070's amps. You will need to pick up a sound meter and calibrate all of your channels no matter what (there are test tones generated by the receiver or pre/pro to aid in this), which will allow you to equalize the sound.

4. There has been no announcement about a replacement for the 950, although we know from a recent post that there is a design in development. That of course leaves us with no firm idea of when. Not this year. I'd put it at least a year away, possibly 18 months.

5. Digital bass management refers to bass management that is performed in the digital domain (during the signal processing required to apply whatever surround mode is selected). It takes the signal for any speakers defined as "small" and applies crossovers to redirect the information below the crossover point from that speaker to the subwoofer (or, in the case of a system with no sub, the mains, which would be defined as "large" in that case). The 950 does this with what Outlaw calls a "triple crossover" - different crossover points can be specified for the mains, center, and surrounds. Analog bass management refers solely to the bass management provided for the six-channel analog input that I mentioned in my first answer -- the input used for DVD-Audio and SACD. These signals are high-resolution audio that is converted from digital to analog at the player, and to preserve the audio quality we would prefer to not convert that signal back to digital for processing and then back to analog again, so the six-channel analog input bypasses all digital processing. To provide some bass management for this signal (since even now many DVD-A/SACD players do not provide very good bass management), Outlaw included an analog crossover system based around an 80Hz crossover.

------------------
gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Gonk,

WOW, What an answer! More like an education! Hope there is not a pop quiz!

Many thanks for that very complete, detailed, informative answer, and you also answered some questions that I did not know to ask.

For instance, I did not know that

"Dolby EX, DTS:ES, CES, and Pro Logic IIx only work with a 6.1 or 7.1 speaker setup."

Thanks. I was really thinking "Do I really need 6th speaker?" I have the room, and I can afford it, I just did not see the need.

BUT, the whole reason for my upgrade, is to take advantage of all the "signal processing formats" that are out there. I was basicly happy with my current 5 yr old receiver, (Pioneer Elite VXR-14) EXCEPT that it does not have DTS, and the SACD and DVD-A formats.

However, for me, "signal processing formats" and "bells and whistles" are two different things, I want the former, but can do without the later. Give me solid performace over bells and whistles.

DVD-A and SACD, realisticly speaking, do you thing there is any real difference between say FireWire and using Analog cables? I would bet not, so the only difference is a little less clutter in the back. Actually, I am sure that there will be a million threads created out there in Audio Cyberspace touting the benefits of using FireWire vs Analog connections. . . !

So, do you thing a "value alternative" to these "super receivers, would be the 1070. along with 3 Model M Block 200? (the M200's would run the center, and Left and Right Speakers.) If the 1070 is around 700, than my configuration would be about 1600 bucks.

That price range is competitive with some "super receivers", and actually less expensive than several flagship super receivers.

Oh, what is THX, and how is that different from DTS? Is that just DTS with the THX certification, or is there additional signal processing, etc in THX?

Thanks again, and thanks for all your other posts, as I spent several hours reading them in the last several days.

[This message has been edited by BuddTX (edited August 02, 2004).]

The real benefit of firewire with DVD-Audio and SACD (the reason that people have been chomping at the bit for it or some other standard digital interface) is that it lets you consolidate all digital processing (bass management, signal processing, and what-not) and D/A conversion in one place (the reduction in cabling is a plus, too, but mostly from a convenience standpoint). With DVD-A and SACD decoding restricted to the player, you need two sets of high-quality DACs -- one in the player for DVD-A/SACD and one in the receiver or pre/pro for everything else (video DVD's, CD's, cable or satellite, etc.). Whether firewire or analog connection will sound better depends (as with most things) in the components you choose -- firewire to a receiver with a mediocre digital engine could end up not sounding as good as analog from a good player to a receiver or pre/pro with a decent analog section.

It's still too early to tell for sure about the 1070, but I suspect that it will offer an excellent alternative to the super receivers even without adding outboard amplification. The trusty old 1050 was rated at 65Wx6 (albeit not with all channels driven at once), and it was widely praised for packing more power than the rating suggested.

THX covers a lot of ground, and it is separate from DTS. DTS is a 5.1 digital audio format that competed with Dolby Digital in the 1990's when the DVD format was defined. Think of it as a cousin of Dolby Digital. THX, on the other hand, is first and foremost a quality assurance license. To carry the THX logo, a product has to meet a set of requirements set forth by THX (the company that George Lucas established back in the 1980's in order to provide some means of establishing quality control for movie theaters) and then be tested by THX. In addition to this quality control, THX offers some processing modes. There's THX Surround EX, which is a home theater derivative of the movie theater Dolby Digital EX format created in the late 1990's and used in Episode I and Episode II of Star Wars. For several years, THX EX was the only way to get EX processing in a home theater, but in late 2001 Dolby began to license Dolby Digital EX for home theater gear. There is still a set of THX processing modes licensed as part of the THX program. These include re-equalization, adaptive decorrelation (to help with managing mono signals), and some requirements for bass management (THX dictates an 80Hz crossover, which is intended to guarantee proper performance with THX-approved speaker systems). Think of THX as an overlay for Dolby Digital or DTS decoding - you get the 5.1 channels, and then THX handles the final processing. Years ago, the processing provided by THX was a big deal. Today, most or all of the processes included in THX processing are considered essential parts of any surround processor (pre/pro or receiver).

That description of THX may seem sort of long-winded, but it's actually pretty abbreviated. There's a lot about THX that I haven't mentioned. If you are interested in finding out more, you might skim through THX's site or even doing a search through old posts here in the forum - there have been some discussions about the need (or lack thereof) for THX processing that included comments from some very knowledgeable folks.

------------------
gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Another very informative post!

So Firewire is NOT just a way to save on a little cable cluster. It is going to be a whole new way for components to interface with each other. I see.

It sounds like FireWire is at least a year or so in the future, is that a correct statement?

So, in the system of the future, you would probably only have one firewire connection to any other component.

THX-I always thought that THX was JUST certification. I remember that in years past, there were some "THX certified" receivers that people questioned, as the receiver seemed to be pretty wimpy, then there were some mamoth recievers that DID NOT get certification.

I remember when researching my last receiver, DTS SEEMED to be on the way out. There was only 17 movies at amazon.com that actually had DTS when I bought my receiver, and the general thought was that it was going to fade out, and DD was going to be the de facto standard, and things changed after I bought my receiver, and big movies started coming out with DD versions, and DTS versions.

I've got a lot to think about.

Thanks again.

It is possible that we will see a migration to more and more integrated cabling - Firewire is used for digital audio and video from some camcorders and for some HD devices like D-VHS, and there is also HDMI which combines digital audio and HD-compatible digital video. It's going to take a while for any sort of change along those lines to occur, however, and barring some sort of fundamental revolution you are still going to have multiple cables (the pre-amp to amp route in separatres will remain analog for a long while to come, not to mention speaker cables). As for when Firewire will become standard on DVD players, there have been some signs of progress in the last six to twelve months, but it still looks like anybody buying in the next year or two is going to have to go out of their way to find components that will support it.

DTS got off to a shaky start. They lost out to Dolby in the 90's when the standard audio format for DVD's was determined by the DVD Forum (had they won, every disc would include a DTS track and every player ever made would be able to pass a DTS digital signal). Dolby remains the official standard (and will at least until an HD-DVD format arrives), but DTS has found quite a bit of success in the last three years or so.

------------------
gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

i think the 1070 with 3 m200s would be very nice. keep in mind that the m200s output 300wts at 4ohms.

the 1070 is going to output 65wpc and only 65wpc no matter how many speakers connected.

there are different ways to make amps, so more headroom is not necessarily achieved by driving a multichannel amp into less than the max amount of speakers it can handle...

------------------
This post has been brought to you by curegeorg, thanks for reading.

So, has there been any hint of when the 1070 will be released? I know I read sometime this year, towards the end of the year.

While I am anxious, I am suere that Outlaw would rather take their time, and do it right, and I also would rather they do that.

Outlaw has said that the 1070 will not be available any time before the very end of December 2004.

------------------
gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

by then, you could have saved up for 5 m200s or an lfm! :-)

------------------
This post has been brought to you by curegeorg, thanks for reading.