If the following article is true, I'm wondering if the same people (and philosophy, and practices) will continue albeit under the name of a parent or sister company?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20002218-47.html

And what might that mean for Outlaw?

This post might be of interest. It sounds like plans for manufacturing of Outlaw's speakers are still in a state of flux.

Interesting that Outlaw sells Snell speakers AND Marantz home theater receivers. Other brands owned by D&M Holdings (in addition to Snell) include McIntosh, Denon, and Boston Acoustics.

Anyone else notice the similarities between the 998's preliminary front panel and some of Denon's higher models? Just an observation from the original announcement.

Well, it didn't take a whole lot of digging to find out that Inkel (the folks behind the 997 debacle) also manufactures product for (drumroll):

Sherwood, Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, NAD, Denon, Harman/Kardon and Onkyo and a few others...seems like there's no escape.

They manufacture for all of those companies, but that doesn't mean they are the exclusive manufacturer for them or that they are involved in the design process for all of them.

Yep, I'm sure some of those companies have multiple suppliers. One heck of a coincidence though.

I looked at Denon's website briefly, and the display on the Model 998 front panel concept does look very similar to the Denon front panels. That does suggest some shared resources somewhere on the design side, even if only in who they are sourcing displays from. It's a nice concept for front panel display, with two lines of text and some helpful graphical indicators on input and output channels that can actually be understood from a distance. From that perspective, I'd say it's a good place to start if you are looking for a front panel display that is more than just a couple lines of text. The volume indicator even looks like it's a decent size - unlike the indicator on my Onkyo 885, which I suspect Onkyo could only have made smaller if built it from individual DLP mirrors. The rest of the front panel layout is certainly different from Denon's stuff, of course, being an homage of sorts to the RR2150.


But the 998's not being done in partnership with Inkel. They have somebody different involved now that the 997's been dropped.

I'm a big fan of Denon's display, especially if the "running" information such as codec, volume etc, does not overlay on the screen. I had a 970, that of course overlayed, but when I used the 2808 as temporary solution, it did not overlay but the display certainly helped with - as mentioned input and output indicators and a half decent volume display. I agree with you in that it is a good place to start. Personally I like the preliminary photo with the "homage of sorts to the RR2150"

While the manufacturer of the 998 has yet to be confirmed, I would think having a partnership with D and M holdings would be great idea. There seems to be lots of R and D available and some well established (and working) products from them. Just an opinion though. I do recall seeing some information of a pre/pro based on the 4310 but this has not materialized. I assume this was to provide a pre/pro at a much more modest price point. Now if we could just get a little more of an update....

Did they announce that it was a different company? I don't recall seeing that. Just curious...

Too bad about Snell though. Back on topic, if Snell goes away I wonder which company they'll go to for a replacement product?

Best,

It's not explicit, but that's how I understood the announcement - they noted that the Model 998 was being "built from the ground up to our own specifications and manufactured for us by a well respected consumer electronics manufacturer" with no reference to Inkel, just a paragraph or so after discussing the Inkel-built 997.

Since the BLS and LCR were not rebadged Snell designs, Outlaw still has ownership of the designs and could get a different manufacturing partner for them - much like they moved manufacturing of the RR2150 after the first factory couldn't satisfy the demand. The SL may be similar in that regard. I don't know enough about domestic speaker manufacturing to know who they might move to, but Outlaw's staff do.

To continue with the 998 faceplate comments a little longer, why are people so focused on the front panel display? Is any front panel display ever satisfying given the inherent size limitations? In my setup (and I am sure a lot of others), I can't even view the front panel because it is in a cabinet; and even if I could, I would need the display to be impracticably huge in order to read anything with any clarity given the distance. Therefore, shouldn't their be at least some focus (preferrably a lot of focus) on incorporation into the 998 of a useful on-screen display that pops up on your TV when you want it (preferably in ghost image mode) so that you can see and pick current settings not just setup parameters? I often have the TV screen on even when I listen to straight music, so such an on-screen display will more likely than not be accessible to me. In any event, I would like something more useful than the on-screen display for the 990 which is used mainly for initial setup and you have to switch video inputs in order to use. Although I don't know, I am thinking that a seamless integrated popup ghost on-screen display should be relatively easy to overlay on the video image coming out of the 998, especially given that the 998 will be doing video switching with video inputs plugged into and running through it. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on and feasibility of this type of a feature.

Ed.

An option for having some on-screen information is appealing to some users, while others don't want it. The Model 990's on-screen data is limited by the fact that component and DVI video switching couldn't handle text overlays onto the active video source. DVI on the 990 is purely switching, and the component switching of HD signals is similar (with the processor replacing the video signal entirely when providing the on-screen setup menu). A video processing section based on something like the Reon or Anchor Bay offers the ability to provide those overlays across the board, which could achieve what you are interested in on the Model 998.

Likewise, the front panel display is completely invisible to some users and is very important to others. Personally, we don't use the on-screen overlays on our Onkyo 885 but I do care about having a front panel with some useful and reasonably legible information.

Gonk, thanks for the comments. You mention the on-screen overlay on the Onkyo 885; are you saing that the Onkyo 885 has the ability to overlay information like what I am envisioning for the 998 or more similar to the current 990 setup? If the former, can you easily toggel it on and off remotely so you can easily see and/or change current settings? I am just curious, as I will only be buying the 998 when it comes out (assuming Outlaw feedback is good and the economy has not tanked any further to give me additional pause)--I am fairly new to the audiophile world and Outlaw has become comforting to me in terms of price, information access, service, and fellow Outlaw feedback and insight.

Ed.

The 885 can display some information on-screen - changing an input and changing the volume, possibly changing processing modes (haven't had it turned on in so long I don't recall all taht it did) - but it's either on all the time or not at all. To enable or disable it, you have to change a menu setting. They called it something odd like "Immediate Display".

Gonk, what processor do you use? Did you finally spring for the Anthem? I can't imagine that if the 885 hasn't been turned on for some time, you haven't been listening/watching something.

Oh, the 885's still getting turned on - but that particular setting has been turned off for a long time now.

I am amazed in this economy the overpriced vanity ultra-high end hasn't imploded worse. Snell and Dunlavy made well-engineered speakers that were not like $13,000 mini monitors or $8,000 MTM center channels. It's staggering people still fling around cash on audio that I have always considered overhyped form over function. Fried would probably still be around if he had not charged so much for his small speakers, as they were very good. I would not miss the hyper-priced esoterica if it was relegated to museum pieces. It's nice eye candy, but too often I have heard the stuff and found myself bored. Companies like Magnepan, Thiele, Vandersteen and VMPS are great American companies that offer high end sound without the car-like price tags. I think that engineering, and reasonable cost is why they are still around.