Just wondering because I've been doing a little of that lately. About a week or so ago, I acquired a NAD PP-3—a USB phono preamp—dirt-cheap on eBay. It was a fluke really…the seller was unloading it "as is for parts" because it was thought to be defective even though cosmetically it's like new. I don't think she/he even tested it, because I've found no problems with any of the inputs or outputs…it's a $200 piece of gear that cost me $28 + shipping.

The best thing about it in terms of the RR2150 is that the PP-3 has a line input, so that I can use it and still get the benefits of the RR2150's phono stage. I tested the moving magnet in- (it also has one for moving coil cartridges), but I like the RR2150's better. I have no intention of digitizing my entire LP collection (though the wife would probably welcome that); but since in most cases I don't have CD duplicates of my LPs, it's good to have the ability to digitize the rare album tracks that I'd like to send to my friends.

yes! not me but a small group of people i know have been using some very high-end gear to make hi-rez digital files from LPs. the results for me have been new copies of albums ive had for yrs that sound better than my cds in a blind test. better bass is the biggest improvement, but certainly not the only one. we have been using friends and family that are not music nuts in our tests too, and its generally better all round.

good for you!

I copied my entire LP collection to CD sometime back using a JVC CD recorder and immediately copy any new LP that I acquire.. I still play the LPs, but it's handy to have a back-up copy that's more portable and robust.. I was really suprised at the quality of the transfer. It's not up to LP standaeds, but it sounds more like the LP than most of the commercially produced CDs that I've heard of the same performances.

Though I did copy a few vinyls to CD (convenience) I don't plan to, as mostly I have CDs.

I did, however, copy lots of 4 channel live material to CD. Did it ways: (1) mixdown 4 ch analog to 2 chan analog; (2) Convert 4 ch analog to 4 of the six channels in a dts format. Copied the 4 analogs to a digital hard drive machine. Imported into computer. Then using a program assigned the (now on computer) 4 channels into a digital bitstream. The result is a dts disc with 4 channels, identical to the original tape. Playable thru my Sony 950 DVD;Any of my Oppo machines.....and from a non-dts machines such as my Sony 455 or TASCAM CD01U thru a Millenium dts decoder. So the original imaging of the performance is still there. Output to 4 speakers across the front. Decoder gives me digital or analog outs. Digital will feed the room in a 5.1 environment. The analog plays thru 7.1 analog inputs.
Happy "camper"

I've been using a Behringer USB unit (I forget the model number). I never did get the free software that came with it to work. However it works great with Sony Soundforge.

Soundforge does a great job cleaning up the clicks and pops added by many years of abuse.

Yeah, it's probably for the best that you couldn't use the free software. I'm currently using the free version of Vinyl Studio (think it's called "VS Lite"), and it says it'll let you erase the pops and clicks, but there's a catch: Unless you spring for the paid version, you can't save or burn anything you've cleaned up. Oh, well…

In the last few months I've assembled some new-to-me vintage Pioneer gear originally sold in 1978 and it certainly rekindled my interest in stereo and vinyl. I don't have too many albums but I now realize much of my vinyl (from the late 60s to early 80s) will never be transferred to CD and it sure would be nice to have portable versions. I've looked at the NAD PP-3 phono preamp that has a analog to digital converter with a USB output for digitizing LPs. Anybody here used it and can report on how well it works? I'm also curious what Behringer product EEman used. I've read about Vinyl Studio and its nice to know about the "lite" limitations. Has anyone used other click/pop software with success?

Lastly, has anyone imported the digitized LPs into iTunes? Any lessons to be shared? Thanks!

If anyone is interested my vintage Pioneer system is:
SA-8500II integrated amp w/60 watts per channel
TX-8500II tuner
PL-610 semi auto turntable w/ Shure M97xe cartridge
Outlaw ICBM used as a stereo high/low pass filter for my sub and satellite speakers
Cambridge Audio DacMagic fed by an Airport Express/iTunes

I'll date myself: Pablo Cruise - A Place In the Sun from 1977 is spinning as I write this...

I'm listening to Eno's Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy) from 1974 as I write this, AvFan…but I bought it in the mid-'80s.

Anyway, the NAD PP-3 has been performing beautifully for me, but the truth is I don't have anything to compare with it. I've imported everything I've digitized into iTunes through Vinyl Studio…it's a pretty simple process. I can honestly say that the "cleanup function" of Vinyl Studio does its job quite well, though. As a teaser, VS Lite allows you to erase an LP's pop and clicks, but won't let you burn a CD with more than four cleaned-up tracks. So as a test, I burned one side of John McLaughlin's Devotion (four tracks, incidentally) and then placed the "clean" and "unclean" versions side by side in iTunes. My vinyl sounds pretty clean to start with, but there was no denying that Vinyl Studio made the tracks sound pristine. Of course, it's still an mp3, which isn't the kind of lossless quality that nfaguys is talking about up above, but it's cool nonetheless.

tru:

Thanks for the report on the PP-3. It seems so straight forward for A/D conversion and I'd get to compare its phono preamp to the Pioneer's. I'll keep an eye on ebay for one. I don't have nfaguys sophistication but I rip all my CDs to AIFF so I'm looking for LP software that does some form of lossless too. Does VS rip to wave format? If so, I can convert it to AIFF using Max file converter on my iMac.

The Wayback Machine has been dialed to 1962 to hear Herb Albert and the TJ Brass' first album, The Lonely Bull. I'm sure glad recording engineers got a better handle on stereo because there are a couple of goofy recordings on this LP. Regardless, a few memorable tunes mostly because they were used as music for a few game shows.

Vinyl Studio does indeed rip to wav. files, AvFan. Question: How does Max file converter work? It's something I should look into. I rip my CDs to AIFF also.

Max is a pretty comprehensive file converter. I've not used it a lot but when I did it worked well. Check out Max for more info but it will convert between wav and AIFF and between lots of other file formats too. Let me know what you think.

I saw that some were interested in importing their LPs to Itunes after digitizing them and were settling for MP3 versions of the music. If you convert the digitized LP to Apple Lossless, then you can listen to the converted LP on Itunes without compromising sound like you do with the MP3s. And better, for around $300 more you can get an Apple TV and download the lossless digitized LPs (and any other music ) from Itunes into the Apple TV that then feeds your pre-pro with lossless sound. If you are already using Itunes (for convenience or otherwise), you might as well get an Apple TV and convert what you have to Apple Lossless to have seemless access to your lossless music collection. I have done that and am now very happy with the convenience and versatility of the Apple TV. As an added benefit, I loaded my family pictures and video (which before only sat unviewed) into the Apple TV and now get to view them on the TV while listening to good music, both of which working together really bring back good memories and increase my listening pleasure. Note, however, that I spent a little more money as I hacked the Apple TV and upgraded to a 750 gigabite hard drive and also bought an Itouch and downloaded an app to use the Itouch as a remote for the Apple TV. While the Itouch is basically a necessity, the large hard drive may not be--Once I load all my current music (500 CDs in Apple Lossless) and family pictures I may still not use up all the 160 megabytes of the unhacked Apple TV (perhaps that might change if I load a lot of movies).

What type of ADC are people using to digitize their LPs. I saw a Bellari tube preamp with a USB analog output but there has to be something that does not involve the tubes which can go straight from the phono to USB. The Bellari is supposed to be compatible with all the Windows Media stuff and comes with its own software which isn't one of the "lite" versions.

…still using the NAD PP-3 phono preamp with USB input…and diggin' the hell out of it. It came with a disc for Vinyl Studio for Windows, but I have a Mac, so I downloaded the free Mac version from the site. In terms of digitization (bitrates, types of files and whatnot), it's actually the entire program, but in the no-cost (read: "lite") tier what you can do with the finished product is limited.


Will do, AvFan, and thanx much!

Is the USB an input or output? What do you mean limited with what you can do with the finished product? The bottom line is: Can I digitize my albums, remove the clicks and pops and convert them to MP3s to put on my iPod.

Whoops! Clarification: The USB is technically not an input or output. As per the manual, it's described as a "USB socket" or "USB digital interface". I mixed up the names because I connect the preamp to my laptop the same way I connect to the RR2150's USB input. The NAD PP-3 has one line-level RCA "out" and three inputs…a line-level "in" and one each for moving magnet or moving coil cartridges. I've tried the moving magnet "in", but I prefer the line "in" because that way I use the RR2150's phono stage.

As I explained above, if you have the no-cost version of Vinyl Studio, you can digitize LPs and import them into iTunes raw, without any cleanup. If you opt to erase any pops and clicks, in order to save and burn the finished files you have to pay for the software. Clearer?

[quote=AvFan]I'm also curious what Behringer product EEman used.

I have the Behringer UFO202. Specs are here:

Behringer UFO202

The Sony Soundforge software I'm using allows storage in more formats that I'll ever use. The auto click/pop removal works well but you can also zoom in and manually take out that half sinewave pop if you so desire.

So it looks like the Gunslingers are using the following phono preamps with an ADC and USB output:

NAD PP-3 at $200 retail and regularly available for $179
Behringer UFO202 at $45 retail

There are a couple of others, one mentioned here:
Rolls/Bellari VP-530 at $400
Audio Genie Pro at $70 but their website says the item is discontinued but it seems to be available from online retailers.

There is also the Pro-Ject II USB for $200 online and BestBuy.

I've not seen any side-by-side comparisons between any of these preamps with usb. Anybody else seen a comparison or made one themselves? One of the issues I'm trying to figure out is each ADC's sample rate.

Thanks TruBlu. Much clearer now. Is there anyone using the Bellari 530? It looks like a pretty good device but I already have a phono stage and just want to digitize LPs.

ive used a Grace lunatec V3 for all my ADC conversions. a friend has a sweet table that runs to his phono pre and then balanced into my v3> hard drive. i like wavelab over sony SF for audio processing, but both work fine. declicker is a miracle tool.

Wow! That Lunatec V3 is really something with a great sampling rate. Its just a tad outside my price range however. Thanks for the opinion on software! Is it Virtos DeClicker?

Has anyone had success with software to remove pops and hiss from LPs? If so, what product?

i have the v3 for a preamp in my live recording rig, which i can use in other apps, but i know its out of the question for normal use given the price. just figured i would share our method.

I just ordered a Behringer UFO202 from amazon. For less than $35 I figured I would try it out. Looks like it has all the capabilities I will need. I guess we'll see soon enough.

XenonMan:

I'm looking forward to your report on the UFO202. EEman seems to like his. And I agree, $35 is not much to try analog to digital. What software are you going use? Mac or PC?

I'm just jealous Jimna! I'm sure that piece of gear does a terrific job of ADC.

Seconded…

As for the Lunatec v3, the only thing I can add is that Grace Design stuff comes pretty highly recommended. Some time ago, when I was researching outboard DAC options, a friend kept going on and on about the Grace M902 headphone amp/DAC. I've been curious about it ever since, but no way was I going to spend triple the price of the RR2150 when the receiver already has a decent-sounding USB input. That seemed like stretching a tweak a wee bit too far.

I have PCs with XP. I will not use it until the end of June as my album collection is up north. Thats why I want to digitize it in the first place so I can enjoy it in south Florida too. If it can clean up the clicks and pops and make it easier to use without a big loss of fidelity it will meet my needs.

sorry to derail the thread, but i have to testify (as the mormons say) the V3 is one hell of a piece of gear. Ive put it to the test over and over. Ive recorded in the sandy beach of the atlantic ocean with it, and at 11k in the rockies, its seen endless hot humid day of use like in '08 when i recorded 35hrs of with it at all good festival, and Ive used it in a torrential down pour like at the earth day festival on the national lawn in '07. its a work horse that never fails. its the best 1750$ ive ever spent. mothers day is coming, get your mom one if you really love her....then borrow it regularly.

Its way over the top for my needs but it looks like a useful piece of gear for what you do. How do you change the XLR output to USB in to a computer?

i dont, i run digital coax into a m-audio sound card to hard drive. i generally use wavelab 6 for all that too. we ripped a first pressing of Apostrophe the other day, 24/96 sounds really nice. this record had only been play about 10 times before, his dad has been backing up LP's on reel to reel for yrs and listening to the tape, so his records are like new.

Honestly I was looking for cheap not high performance as I don't have too many records and those are pretty beat up. Having said that I was surpised at the performance of the cheapy approach. I have a Technics SL-J2 linear tracking turntable with a cheapy Amazon needle as my good old Pickering needle was trashed.

My next step will be to ground the inputs and characterize the A/D converter noise (because I'm a nerd). I'll really be suprised if there isn't a couple bits of noise injected by the unit.

Well I have about two months before I can even use mine. I have a pretty decent turntable and phono cartridge. Not real high end but good enough to sound good. Let us know how your evaluation goes.

Well, like I said at the beginning of the thread, mine was a bargain-basement option also…I purchased the NAD preamp thinking I'd have to have it repaired. Somehow I managed to get really lucky.

If only I could will that to happen more often…

Measurements complete.

With both inputs grounded and the switch in Phono I'm getting the noise floor at about -66dB.

Same config with the switch in Line the noise floor DROPS to about -78dB.

These are peak levels. RMS levels are less which get you close to the spec in the datasheet in the Line position.

Zooming in reveals that the noise in the Line setting is pretty much all 60Hz noise.

I'm happy with this performance for what I do.

Just got back from NC. Used the Behringer UFO202 to record some vinyl over to digital. When I first hooked it up to the output of my table it generated a 60 HZ hum in my system so I wasn't impressed at first. I rearranged it so its line in was coming from the record out on the 990 and Voila!! it worked like a champ. My PC sensed the USB connection and when I started the included Audacity software the system was ready to rock (literally). I recorded 10 albums digitally and was able to use the software to edit the music. The UFO202 worked flawlessly and the software was easy to use. It let me edit out the clicks and pops manually or automatically. It provides a lot of control features which I will likely never use but some were really cool. It takes about 45 minutes for each album to get recorded and another hour to edit each one. You can then a=save them as WAV or MP3 formats. WAV took up about 400 MB for each album. The raw data files created by Audacity use about 1.8 GB each. It really helps to have an external drive to store them on. I have a 1 TB drive and it worked real well. I found the digitizing process reminded me of recording via reel to reel many years ago, but a lot simpler and easier to make corrections on the fly.

As far as musical fidelity, its all there. Playing the file back in Audacity reveals all of the foibles of vinyl as far as noise floor and clicks, pops and other junk. I was able to remove as much or as little of the junk as I wanted. If you take your time it is possible to make the recording sound as quiet as a CD. When I played the recording back through the 990 it sounded the same as the vinyl without the annoying junk and I didn't have to get up to swap sides and I could read the liner notes and lyrics.

If you want a quick, easy to use device to digitize your vinyl without spending a lot of $$$ the UFO202 can't be beat. I am very impressed with the usability and accuracy and the price was right.

Thanks for the review on the Behringer! I was thinking about this thread a week or so ago and wondering if you'd had the chance to try out the UFO202. Again, $35 and a little time seems such a small price to create digital versions of prized vinyl. I wonder why running the line out to the 990 resolved the hum. Ground loops can be a bear to resolve but I'm glad you found an easy solution and I'll keep it in mind if I run into the same problem.

I bought a vintage (circa 1978) Pioneer PL-610 turntable a few months back and it has a Shure M97xe on it so it sounds pretty nice. It needs to go into the shop as the auto return recently stopped working but even in full manual it is a worthy turntable. I've been keeping my eye out for a NAD PP-3 but none have showed up on ebay or audiogon since this discussion started so, based upon your positive results I'm off to get a UFO202.

I eventually will want to get the digitized vinyl into iTunes in AIFF for ease of use. I can use MAX to convert WAV to AIFF. Have you found a way to get the metadata (including album art) for the songs or did you have to plug that info in manually?

I would think that the metadata is available but it isn't going to be automatically input. I will probably not put the data in manually. When I recorded the albums I didn't break them into individual tracks, so the recording is basically one big file for the whole album. If you wanted to spend more time on it, the individual tracks could be broken out. Since I usually listen to an album as a whole it makes it easier.

Hooking the UFO202 up to the record out basically isolated the ground loop from the source, which is the turntable. Once I converted the datafile to WAV iTunes played it fine.

Hey AvFan. tru blu here. There's a new NAD PP3 on eBay right now, though at $189, it's close to full price. Just a heads up…

I wonder what software the NAD uses. By the way the Audacity software is available for free on line. I had it installed on my PC beforehand. It was the same version that came with the UFO202. It also came with software to allow musicians to capture their instruments digitally and to create music electronically on the fly. It was easy to install and use. Since the 990 has a phono amp already, I don't see an advantage to the NAD over the UFO202 except it costs more.

XenonMan, CD Wav Editor is free software that slpits big wav file into individual tracks. You need to do it while still a wave file though...very easy to use and you can rename the tracks as their song title.

Its free: http://www.milosoftware.com/en/index.php?body=cdwave.php

A couple of pages/months ago, I explained that the NAD uses Vinyl Studio, which has a no-cost tier (called "VS Lite") as well as one with a price tag. The free version digitizes the LP and allows you to split up and save the raw tracks WAV. To reiterate, you can also clean up the pops and clicks, but you can't save the fully cleaned-up albums unless you spring for the software.

Interestingly enough, the August issue of Stereophile arrived today, and it has a review of an audio company called Channel D's new "Pure Vinyl" LP recording and editing software and a couple of its phono preamps. Both the program and the preamps are pretty pricey ($299 for the software; $3799 or $1599 for the gear). Channel D isn't a name I'm familiar with, so even though I haven't read the piece yet, I'm obviously curious about it; it's about 5000 words or so.

Audacity will allow you to break up the tracks individually but I chose not to just for convenience. I didn't want to spend a lot of time copying and pasting tracks to individual files and then renaming them. Audacity saves its files in a proprietary format that most programs won't open, but it lets you convert those files to either WAV or MP3 formats once you have cleaned them up. I was able to make most of the vinyl I converted almost as quiet as a CD. I figure for $35 you can't beat it.

"Copying and pasting tracks to individual files and then renaming them"? Wow, that does sound labored. Vinyl Studio has windows to enter the names and times of the tracks in the album sequence before (or during) digitizing. After recording is finished, breaking the tracks is simple; you just go into the sound file (it's rendered as a waveform graph like you might have seen in GarageBand) and use your cursor to edit or break it. Sometimes I've altered the playback to my liking, by giving more or less space between tracks.

Btw, I just finished that Stereophile piece, and the gist of it seems to be that many of these programs are great once you get the hang of them, but for most non-techies they're also really clunky and non-intuitive, so there's always a learning curve. I actually didn't find that to be the case with Vinyl Studio. On the other hand, the author of the Stereophile article, Michael Fremer, seems to have experienced all kinds of speed bumps before getting into the Pure Vinyl program, whose stated aim is to make the digitized file sound better than analog with the help of 24-bit/192kHz resolution capability and a RIAA equalization curve option. If any Outlaws wanna try it themselves, "Pure Vinyl" is available for a 15-day free trial at channld.com/pure-vinyl.html.

Audacity has the capability to add a label track for song titles, lyrics and notes but it is too much work just to listen to albums I have had for 40 years. Thank goodness I always kept them in great condition because they sound as good today as they did when I was a kid.

I thought I'd resurrect this thread since I've been successful at digitizing my first two LPs with many more to go. I'm using a GemSound PL-USB versus the Behringer (mentioned in pervious posts) for analog to digital conversion. The GemSound is selectable for both line or phono input and outputs via USB plus it can be powered by USB or a wall wart. I've got a bare bones setup at this point with just my turntable connected to my iMac via the GemSound.

I'm using Audacity to record and edit my LPs. Audacity is fairly complex but at the same time offers a wide variety of ways to edit the recordings. I split up what has been recorded to the appropriate tracks then edit (click removal, transitions between songs, etc), add the song metadata and then export AIFF files that I then import into iTunes. My first two attempts (Donald Fagen Nightfly and Steely Dan Aja ) were from pretty clean LPs and so transferred well. I've got a couple of LPs from Goodwill that are next that will test and expand my knowledge of Audacity's editing capabilities.

Eventually I'll have the GemSound connected to the Record Out of a Pioneer integrated amp of the same vintage as my turntable. I've got an equalizer of the same era that I may also insert before the GemSound to provide even more adjustment capability. But not to get ahead of myself, does anyone have suggestions that made using Audacity easier and more effective? There are so many choices on how to edit any insights from current users would be appreciated. Thanks!

I have done about 15 of my albums. I just clean them up and export them as MP3 to iTunes. Works real well. What I really like is that I still have the .aup file as raw data if I want to redo the album for export. The Behringer also has a line input but I have it connected to the tape out output of my 990.

Cleaning albums is a big topic over at AudioKarma but I keep it pretty simple. A little Dawn detergent in a spray bottle of distilled water and then a soft paint brush run along with the grooves a bunch of times and then rinsed with more distilled water. Dry them with a micro fiber towel and then let them sit in a dish rack for a bit before playing or storing them. I protect the labels with a contraption made of wing nut bolts and gasketed round electrical box covers. Works well and makes a pretty big difference in the playback.

Since I'm storing the files in AIFF I'm not sure if I'm going to keep the .aup files because I can edit an AIFF in Audacity too. I can also use iTunes to make mp3 or AAC versions for my iPod. Its not the original "recording" but probably close enough. Though I can see how keeping the .aup file would be handy. Mmmmmmm, I may need more hard disc space!

So you are not using the phono preamp of the Behringer, just the ADC? I'll eventually have that configuration which should be better as I'd expect the phono preamp in a '70s Pioneer to be an improvement over the preamp in the GemSound.

Are you breaking up the recording into songs or are you leaving them as one big file? I'm trying to figure out the best way to reduce the surface noise between tracks but not make it so quiet that it sounds funny. Any suggestions?

I have a 1 TB external hard drive which I keep all my music and pictures on. If my PC crashes I still have all the music and Pix. My wife has gotten into the habit of disconnecting it when she's on the net so its pretty safe but I am thinking of getting a second one just for disaster recovery.

Finally started doing this using an Apogee Duet 2. Unit will do up to 24/192, but I am doing 24/96 since the mac has some limitations past that for some things I am doing. Using Audacity like you are, but I am leaving the files full of the LP noise, as it's minimal, and most of my albums I've had for 30+ years and the noise is sort of like an old friend at this point.

Duet does a really nice job, and is also an improvement over the DAC of my 990 during playback of all my files.

The Apogee is a little more than I wanted to spend. The Behringer is cheap but effective.

Yeah, and the new one is $100 more than the old one. The vinyl ripping was a secondary concern to getting a better DAC for me though.