Currently considering the purchase of a 7700 or an Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7.

Current system includes:

Definitive Technology Bp7000sc (2), CLR 3000 (2), BPVX (2), and UIW RSII (2).

Sources: Onkyo NR5007, Camelot Technology Uther & Dragon, Adcom multidisc player, PS3 & SAT box.

Power management: PS Audio Powerplant premier and Richard Grey 400 pro.

The earthquake has more power per channel and is an unbalanced design (from what I have read). The 7700 is balanced although less power per channel. My receiver is rated at 145 watts per channel. I don’t have the ability to add circuits in my house thus I eliminated the 7900 from consideration. All the equipment runs through one 20 Amp circuit.

Any input or suggestions in regard to amplifier selection would be greatly appreciated.

I've had the 7700's predecessor, the 770, in a semi-large (25X 16) listening room/ht foe about 9 years now. The system gets about 12 hours of service per day at reasonable levels and the 770 has never so much as heated up while providing sublime performance.
I'd recommend this amp to anyone who is not running a rave in their spare bedroom , and mabey even if they are.
The 7900 is pretty sexy, but I can't imagine where you'd need more amp than the 7700 in a non-comercial setting.

I've had the 7700's predecessor, the 770, in a semi-large (25X 16) listening room/ht for about 9 years now. The system gets about 12 hours of service per day at reasonable levels and the 770 has never so much as heated up while providing sublime performance.
I'd recommend this amp to anyone who is not running a rave in their spare bedroom , and mabey even if they are.
The 7900 is pretty sexy, but I can't imagine where you'd need more amp than the 7700 in a non-comercial setting.

Albert, I can't speak to the Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7 since I have no experience with it.

I have, however, owned the Outlaw 7500 (same architecture and specs as the 7700, minus 2 channels) for several years now and been extremely pleased with it. It's comfortably driven my difficult to drive Martin Logans and been a very pleasant upgrade to the Yamaha receiver, bridged Classe CAV-75, and Outlaw 7125 that preceded it. I recommend the Outlaw 7500/7700.

Rob

One thing the Outlaws do well is to carry rebranded ATI amps. These things are built like the proverbial brick outhouse. I've got a predecessor too, the 755, and it has performed well for the past 5 years. Outlaw also provides excellent customer service. You could do worse, a LOT worse, spending similar dollars on other products. That said, these days I think Emotiva gives them a run for the money (substantially cheaper and similar quality), though their products are made in China (a deal killer for me personally, but perhaps not for others). I think my next amp will be digital, but my 755 has just kept on chugging and sounds good enough that I haven't felt compelled to upgrade.

Best,

Another 7700 owner, using it to drive Kef speakers. Utterly effortless on dynamic material. Dead quiet. Didn't get the 7900 since I couldn't add circuits to the house.

Albert:

Off your topic, but I see you have both a Richard Gray and the PP Premier. I've been considering the addition of a power conditioner and the RG 1200 and PP Premier are two I'm considering. Can you provide some personal feedback on both products? Thanks.

Mine drives Polks LSi speakers that are inefficient and known to dip to, and below, 2 ohms...

It does it great!

I've had a 7500 for well over a year driving some B&W 703's and the improvement in sound quality was so huge my wife was completely sold on quality amps. Incredible amp!

I am also considering a 7700. However I am wondering about the balanced architecture... Will the 7700 perform amplification in a balanced manner regardless of whether you jack into it with RCA or Balanced inputs?

I realize not using balanced inputs would mean obviously that its benefits in noise cancellation wouldn't apply in the Pre-Amp nor in the cable joining the Pre-Amp and the 7700. But I was hoping those benefits at least would apply in the realm of amplification.

I have not bought a Pre-Amp yet but I am considering some that only have RCA jacks. But I might reconsider if using them would mean losing the benefits of the balanced amp.

Thanks

I just found my answer by searching the forums. Sorry for the noise. No pun intended. Answer is, you do NOT lose the benefits of the 7700's balanced design.

At close to 3X the cost of the 7700 and almost 2X the cost of the 7900 the Cinemova Grande is overpriced. Go with the 7700 and save the $$$

I currently have the B&W 603, fronts and center, with the ADCOM 7605: 125W X 5....

I am a novice to a lot of this stuff but my ears are always open when someone tells me something will sound much better but I need to invest more. Case in point...I am being told that the B&W speakers that I have would be "MUCH" better sounding, whatever "MUCH" better means???, if I invest in an bigger Amp with 200W per channel or higher....thoughts????

"Much" better when moving from 125W to 200W is difficult to believe. When moving between good quality power amps, I expect changes to be incremental and subtle - if there is a really dramatic difference, I start looking for problems somewhere. The same should be true in your case. Adcom's amps are generally good, and you've already got a decent bit of power per channel. The extra headroom amounts to just a couple dB of output. And with speakers that are have a sensitivity of 90dB (according to a brochure I found at B&W's site for the DM603 s3), you would need to have it in a truly gigantic space to need more than 125W of power to get good results from those speakers.

I agree with Gonk, 100%. The extra 75 wpc is not going to change the sound of your B&Ws very much. Louder speakers always sound better no matter what manufacturer makes them. In your case the sound would damage your hearing, well below the limit of the amp. It is true that the extra wattage may help prevent the amp from clipping, but at that level, something else will give out first, likely your marriage or your front door as the cops break it down.

great stuff!!!! thanks!!!!

I have always been a fan of ADCOM Amps and going from 125W to 200W doesnt make sense to me either...just wanted some opinons from those much more versed then I am.......

happy holidays to all!!!

at this time i have a pioneer elite sc-07 avr receiver at 140watts x7 along with atlantic tech 8200e speakers, would i notice a improvement if i go with the outlaw 7700 amp?

I would say no. The SC-07 is rated all channels driven at 140 watts. Some labs have measured it below the spec, but it still puts out more than 120 WPC. Don't waste your $$$ at this point.

Thank your for the info, I will like to upgrade from and abr receiver, to an amp and pre-amp. What do you suggest is the best for an amp and pre-amp?

What makes you unhappy with the Pioneer's performance that you feel you need seperates?

The performance of your system is not going to get much better by kicking the Pioneer out the door and replacing it with separates. The extra wattage available isn't enough to justify the expenditure. With two powered subs and efficient speakers the AVR isn't working very hard at all to provide the power to drive your 7.1 speakers. Remember that the heavy lifting of the low frequency stuff is being done by the subs amps which leaves the Pioneer lots of headroom to drive the other speakers to insane levels. You would be better served buying the Radioshack Sound meter and adjusting your room than going to separates, IMHO.

I have a 26x24 room with nine foot ceilings, and one of the reasons I am assuming that a class a/b amp with an enourmous soundstage, enourmous dynamic range, and width and depth of the frontal sound stage would have cleaner sound.

My room is 30 x 31 x 9, and currently my Denon 3808ci does a good job.

I am sure all the superlative comments also apply to the SC-07. You can adjust the output of the Pioneer to enhance all of the sound stage effects you mentioned. Another 60 watts isn't going to dramatically change that situation. Can you use the wide and high channels on the Pioneer? That may change your stage but you can reposition your mains and change the effect also. Play around with speaker positions and settings on the Pioneer before you jump into the separates boat with both feet.

Thanks for the input. I'm leaning more towards the 7900 amp. Do you think Outlaw will come out with a new amp this year?

Thats a lot of amplifier with some implications in terms of being able to power it. I would think there are few times where that kind of power is needed and even fewer who have two 15 amp circuits available, additionally, the Law of Diminishing Returns may apply. Value just being a mouse click away may not apply with the 7900. But if you got the cash and the circuits - why not, it would be very cool.

Is there a need to come out with a new amp? It would seem that they have the market covered in terms of wattage. 2/3 channel can be covered with monoblocks.

Your speakers are rated at 90 db efficient and up to 200 watts of power handling. At 6 ohms the 7900 is capable of toasting your speakers with more than 300 watts of power. Why would you think you need to go to the 7900 vice a 7700? Seems like overkill to me but if you need it you need it!!

According to Outlaw they use the same speaker system with the 7900 amp.

Literally, more power to ya!! The 7900 is a beast and will power anything you connect to it for years to come. I highly recommend a quality rack to put it in. It weighs as much as two bags of cement.

I've had the 7700 for a year now..Great amp but you need to be in shape to lift it...its a brute. I'm running Snell AII mains with definnitive tech surrounds. I have it paired with a onkyo PR-sr5507 preamp/processor. I was a little worried about heat since I have it in a rather tight enclosure but it has not once had a problem and surprizingly it doesn't get that hot.

Hi, I'm new here. I'm also in a similar situation. I'm currently running an Onkyo TX-SR805 (130w x 7) with Infinity Kappa 7 Series II (89db efficiency) in a 7.1 setup. I might upgrade to the Kappa 9.1 or 8.1 if I ever come across them on CL. I'm tempted to buy the Outlaw 7700 especially since it's on sale. From what I've been reading in this thread, I won't notice much of a difference? If there's not much difference, why would anyone consider getting separates instead of a receiver? Why would anyone buy a 200w x 7 or even the 300w x 7 amp when a receiver at less than half the price of separates produces a similar sound? I don't mind upgrading to separates and a more powerful amplifier if the money I spend will make a difference. I just don't want to spend $2500-3000 if I'm not going to notice a difference. Any thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.

I asked similar questions and Outlaw's 30-day return policy allowed me to answer them with minimal risk. I had a Pioneer Elite 100 watt/channel receiver that I wasn't all that happy with the sound. I purchased my ATI 2005 (virtually the same amp as Outlaw's 7500) used and paired it with the Pioneer. There was a noticeable improvement in the sound. Things got even better when I replaced the Pioneer with the Outlaw 990. This combo has been in my system for several years and I continue to be very happy with it. I think the move to separates has a number of advantages:

1. If you buy a separate amp there is flexibilty to replace just the pre/pro as new features (e.g. video processing, room correction, etc) are developed.

2. The Outlaw/ATI amps have been around for a number of years and are very reliable.

3. In my case the separate amp sounded better than the amp in my receiver when using the receiver as the pre/pro. However, I'm not 100% sure if I would have added just the separate amp to the receiver. Because the 990/ATI 2005 sounded better than the receiver or receiver/ATI2005 combo I committed to separates. It was worth it to me to spend the extra money for better sound.

4. With Outlaw's 30-day return policy all you are risking is the cost to ship it back to Outlaw if you aren't satisfied with the sound.

Really only you can say whether the additional expense is worth it for your particular receiver, room, speakers, etc. The 30-day return policy allows you to find out. Enjoy!

When comparing good amps to good amps, differences should be minimal. Some people seek out those minimal differences and will invest significant money to obtain them. This is also true to some degree when comparing good surround processors (either true processors or receivers like your 805 used as processors), although there are a lot more variables involved and greater room for variation in performance (DSP, bass management, room correction, and D/A conversion) compared to amps because of that variation. I'll assume for the moment that you're just talking about retaining you 805 and adding a separate amp.

When comparing good separate amps to receiver amps, the equation changes a bit - in fact, some might say that it changes a lot, although it's worth recognizing that the magnitude of the differences depend on what receiver you're talking about. A separate power amp has several advantages. Larger power supply and better natural cooling both give a separate power amp the ability to produce more true power than a receiver. Take the Model 7700 and your Onkyo receiver as an example. The Model 7700 can actually output roughly 200W into each of its seven channels at the same time. Your receiver can output up to 130W per channel, but it can't drive all seven channels to that level at the same time. That 130W rating is for just two channels driven. The receiver's smaller power supply simply can't provide enough current to fully power up all seven amp channels to that level. Also, the Model 7700's 200W rating is at 0.03% distortion, while the 805's 130W rating is at 0.05% distortion. If we compared apples to apples, the 7700 could output more power while staying within 0.05%. Lower distortion and more headroom (available unused power) are just a couple ways that you can have better sound quality. In addition to sonic benefits, there is a much reduced potential for clipping at high volumes - and clipping is an excellent way to kill a speaker.

In addition, the bigger power supply and heat sinks allow separate amps like the 7700 to drive lower impedance loads. Receivers are often not rated to drive speakers with an impedance lower than 6 ohms. Separate amps like the Model 7700 don't have that restriction, and can drive speakers with rated impedances of 4 ohms or even below. In the case of your receiver, the 805 is rated for 4 ohm loads, but Onkyo doesn't list what the output would be. The Model 7700 is rated at 300W into a 4 ohm load.

Finding specs on your Kappa 7's is tough, as they've been out of production for a long time. I couldn't tell what impedance they are, but I did see several comments that the Kappas (7, 8, and 9) were tough loads to drive. Speakers like that are more likely to benefit from separate amplification than speakers that are easy loads to drive.