I do not own the 970 so I will not comment on the pro's or con's of this receiver. However I have purchased the 990/7700 combo and I am extremely happy.
A lot of my friends who are Home Theater enthusiasts and had spent twice or three times what I paid for my pre/pro were very impressed with the 990's ability to bring the surround sound format in home theater as well as many genre of music .

As many of you know, this model, while it did provide considerable "bang-for-the-buck" it was sold (and continues to be sold) defective. Outlaw sold this product knowing that many units were defective with the "no-audio" bug --- among other glitches.

I cannot believe this statement that OUTLAW knowingly sells defective products. Statements can be easily be made...but what about proof.
How many of the 970's have been defective? How many defective 970's have been shipped by Outlaw knowing that they are defective? More important how many 970's have been returned by customer's who requested their money back?
Finally, where are all the complaints on this forum to back the statement up that Outlaw knowingly sells defective products?


This is not meant to 'throw Outlaw under the bus', rather, I think a healthily conversation about their past behavior should be conducted while many wait to drop $1,400 on another Outlaw pre/pro...

You just did throw Outlaw under the bus by making such a broad statement of irresponsibility by a company who has one of the BEST records of customer satisfaction.
I have met Peter Tribeman and Scott and can say that both men are honest,helpful and take pride in what they do for Outlaw. They not only earn there livelihood from Outlaw but want there customers to have the best Home Theater products that give the best bang for the buck with the satisfaction that the customer owns a premium quality piece of equipment!

Maybe ready504 "You Can't Get No Satisfaction".

Why Outlaw? During the B-Stock sale, I purchased my second 2150 and a pair of Bookshelf speakers, and a sub for my office, having been exceptionally pleased with my first 2150, which is at my cabin. One of the bookshelf speakers had a distorted sound, albeit intermittent. One phone call to Outlaw resulted in them shipping me a replacement (they e-mailed me FedEx shipping info so I could track the order) along with a prepaid shipping label for me to use when returning the defective speaker. One speaker out of the box, defective one in the box, slap on a lable and call FedEx for pick up. Done deal. They didn't wait until I returned the speaker. Within 10 days of receiving the original, I was up and running with the replacement. That's why Outlaw.

PS The new office system sounds FANTASTIC.

Like I said, their service is good. They shipped me a new part in advance of me returning the defctive amp for my LFM-1 too. If you don't mind paying a little more for good service, Outlaw is a nice company to deal with. If you're more cost sensitive or into bleeding edge features....not so much.

Best,

"I cannot believe this statement that OUTLAW knowingly sells defective products. Statements can be easily be made...but what about proof.
How many of the 970's have been defective? How many defective 970's have been shipped by Outlaw knowing that they are defective? More important how many 970's have been returned by customer's who requested their money back?
Finally, where are all the complaints on this forum to back the statement up that Outlaw knowingly sells defective products?"

Rubbersoul, I suggest you take a quick look at the 970 forum. It is widely accepted that the 970 was sold after Outlaw knew about the various bugs associated with the 970.......it is still a solid piece of HT equip, and at the time it represented a great value despite it flaws, however, that cost/benefit dynamic has since changed. At least in my opinion, continuing to sell a product that should have been recalled, does not sit well with me...

I understand that the 990 is and continues to be a great processor, however, the 970 was and is a different animal.

I've dropped my fair share of suggestions towards the Outlaws over the years, via the Saloon, by phone, and in person, and my respect for both the company and the individuals involved has done nothing but grow.

Constructive criticism is one thing; defammation of the brand name is quite another. What drove you to use your first post for the latter purpose (whether unintentionally or not?

Jeff,

I didn't intend to defame Outlaw. In fact, I am a loyal, but concerned customer. The title of my post was regrettable and my tone clearly didn't translate well or represent my intentions.

The past issues with the 970 do concern me, but I regret how it sounded.

Ritz2, I don't understand the first part of your above statement. What other audio company are you aware of that has as good of service for a better price? How much more cost sensitive can you get? At the time of their introduction each of the Outlaw products were pretty "bleeding edge". I feel this anti-hype about not being "bleeding edge" is a holdover from Outlaws refusal to incorporate a half-baked HDMI output into their product line. They don't have the resources of Denon/Onkyo/Yamaha/Sony to bring out seven different versions of the same pre-pro or receiver spread across multiple price points just to gain market share. What they do have is a group of engineers who think the product through and make decision based on current technology and what is likely to be usable in the next 5 years. How many of us have a 990 which is completely compatible with our displays and sources, 5 years after its debut. Except for more wires, the lack of HDMI barely affects the 990 or the 970 since they have analog inputs.

Too much coffee today??? I said their service was good. I also said their prices are higher than similar products offered by competitors (Emotiva comes to mind). Some people are willing to pay more for that extra bit of service and some are not. That is all I'm saying.



Spare me. Half baked? HDMI has been a fact of life for years now and was already appearing in consumer gear when the 990 was released (moreso when the 970 was released). If Outlaw's release cycle for a flagship processor is going to be every 5-6 years, then they'll need to be a little bit more on the ball and forward thinking about key design decisions of this nature.



That much is quite clear. If you don't have the resources of your competition, you need to be a bit more forward thinking about your product mix. Use your brains, not your muscle.



Is this a joke? Lack of HDMI completely removes the 990 from any serious consideration for a theater system and that's been the case for a couple of years. If it wasn't, Outlaw wouldn't be reselling Onkyo's processor while they wait helplessly for Sherwood to deliver a usable plaform for the 997.

Lastly, there hasn't been anything I'd classify as innovative offered in the Outlaw store in a couple of years that's been anything more than a repackaging of someone else's product. Without any stand-out product to fall back on, that leaves them with only price and service to differentiate themselves. They're doing that with their service, for sure, but I wouldn't classify Outlaw's prices these days as particularly competitive. Combine all of the above and you've got the current situation where the bulk of the posts on these forums are from members who have owned the gear for years and very little interest from new customers.

Best,

Why would lack of HDMI remove the 990 from HT consideration? Projectors don't use the audio portion of HDMI and the video portion is identical to DVI. So the video output of the 990 can go directly to a projector and provide 1080P resolution in a very stable configuration. The 990s analog inputs allow it to use an outboard Bluray device to decode the audio from any of the formats. While I agree the 990 is doing no processing of the signals in either case it does provide a stable platform to control your system.

5 years ago HDMI was not as user friendly as it is today. It had a lot of quirks due to HDCP and the plug itself is a engineering disaster. Let us not forget that they also put out several new versions of it to make it more mainstream but have never improved the video capability over what DVI already provided. I am sure that when projectors start using 4000P we will see HDMI 1.X touted as the next best way to see the huge improvements in the picture.

To me the best thing about HDMI is the ability to reduce the cables in the back of the system. I just wish they had designed to plug a little better. It only takes a little cable stress to make the plugs pull out ever so slightly causing audio loss.

And it's still half baked.

Though I agree that any new receiver or pre/pro that does not have a robust HDMI implementation these days is generally not suitable for new-purchase consideration.