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#82118 - 01/21/10 02:52 PM Re: OPPO Upscaling DVD players [Re: KOYAAN]
Jeff Mackwood Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 427
While anything is possible, I doubt it. I'm not so cursed as to be able to distinguish between different DACs anyhow. As I said, I never expected to hear a difference in the first place. The likelihood that it was the fewer A/D conversions is far greater than any possible difference between DACs. And again this was not a big difference that I hear; noticeable but very subtle, manifested almost entirely in the surround channels.
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#82131 - 01/22/10 12:02 AM Re: OPPO Upscaling DVD players [Re: Jeff Mackwood]
AvFan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 619
Loc: El Cajon, California
I wouldn't be so quick to discount the possibility you heard the differences in the DACs. I didn't think I was "cursed" either until recently when I compared CD playback on my BDP-83 ==>990 via coax to the BDP-83==>Cambridge Audio DacMagic via coax ==>990 analog inputs. Assuming the 990 does not do some weird thing internally (with A/D/A conversion) there was a difference between the 990 DAC and the DacMagic. Of course the number A/D conversions could be far more significant to the difference you heard. FYI I have a spare 980H that I'm going to use as a transport with the DacMagic in a separate stereo system. IMO, OPPO makes great products.
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AvFan
Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7

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#82144 - 01/22/10 07:30 PM Re: OPPO Upscaling DVD players [Re: AvFan]
Alexandru Mihaita Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Springfield, PA
Definitely Oppo's products' quality was a deciding factor for me when I purchased my first Oppo, the DV-980H.
Now I'm waiting for a BDP-83. I was inclined to wait an see what the new, lower cost, product would be, but Gonk made me pull the trigger when he said that the new one would be the 980H with BluRay support.
I liked the 980, but it was not as good as the 981 which was not as good as 983. This with regard to video performance.
I'm not that interested in the audio performance of the DBP-83 for I have a dedicated music system based on Dell/Benchmark/Musical Fidelity separates.
I can say that the 990, which I'm using only for HT, has fine DAC's inside and a good analog stage, but doesn't match up with the Benchmark/Musical Fidelity combo, not that it should, considering the difference in price and market segment.
So I can definitely say that DAC's and analog stages make a word of difference.
Of course, that's only my opinion...
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Alex

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#82145 - 01/22/10 10:05 PM Re: OPPO Upscaling DVD players [Re: Alexandru Mihaita]
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Originally Posted By: Alexandru Mihaita
Now I'm waiting for a BDP-83. I was inclined to wait an see what the new, lower cost, product would be, but Gonk made me pull the trigger when he said that the new one would be the 980H with BluRay support.
I liked the 980, but it was not as good as the 981 which was not as good as 983. This with regard to video performance.

We're still theorizing, of course - OPPO has provided that example to a couple people, but we don't know how the video performance will stack up. The new player certainly won't be using the same Mediatek chip that drove the 980H (since it isn't BD-compatible), but will instead presumably be using the Mediatek chip found in the BDP-83. I doubt that it will perform worse than the 980H for DVD upscaling, but there's no way yet to know if it will perform better. That being said, it would seem reasonable to say that a 980H-style BD player will not be equal to the BDP-83's ABT2010 video processor... smile
Originally Posted By: Alexandru Mihaita
I'm not that interested in the audio performance of the DBP-83 for I have a dedicated music system based on Dell/Benchmark/Musical Fidelity separates.
I can say that the 990, which I'm using only for HT, has fine DAC's inside and a good analog stage, but doesn't match up with the Benchmark/Musical Fidelity combo, not that it should, considering the difference in price and market segment.
So I can definitely say that DAC's and analog stages make a word of difference.
Of course, that's only my opinion...

You may be more interested in the audio performance than you realize. For lossless audio from Blu-ray (as with SACD and DVD-Audio), you will need to rely on the multichannel analog output. I doubt that it will be the equal of a Benchmark/Music Fidelity combo (that's a lot of oomph dedicated solely to stereo D/A conversion), but it will compare well with the 990 when you need it for multichannel discs.
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gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#82148 - 01/23/10 10:23 AM Re: OPPO Upscaling DVD players [Re: gonk]
Alexandru Mihaita Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Springfield, PA
Well, the reason I said I'm not all that interested in the analog output is that my HT setup is not suited for music. I have Axiom W2 "on wall/in-wall hybrid" speakers for fronts, Axiom W100 for center and orbs for rear surrounds. Not exactly HiFi speakers. More than decent for HT, though.
The music system voices via Sonus Faber Concerto Domus, floor standers, waaaaay better stuff located in an other room.
Probably I'll feed the 990 from the BDP-83 via coax, thus pure Dolby, no true HD and all that. True, at some point might go for a set of BJ analog interconnects and feed the 990 via analog from the BD-83, but then the A/D/A bug will hit me (I have small fronts). I won't probably benefit all that much from True HD format going this way...
Am I wrong in this, you think?
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Alex

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#82151 - 01/23/10 10:52 AM Re: OPPO Upscaling DVD players [Re: Alexandru Mihaita]
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I think that you probably are underestimating the value of lossless formats (TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, etc.) and the A/D/A "bug" is really quite transparent. My Model 990/BDP-83 setup guide goes through my suggestions for pairing these two, in case you haven't seen it.
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gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#82153 - 01/23/10 12:06 PM Re: OPPO Upscaling DVD players [Re: gonk]
Alexandru Mihaita Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Springfield, PA
Thank you, Gonk. Priceless advice, as usual.
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Alex

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#82161 - 01/23/10 08:42 PM Re: OPPO Upscaling DVD players [Re: Alexandru Mihaita]
Alexandru Mihaita Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Springfield, PA
I still have my theoretical doubts about the transparency of the A/D/A path 990 will employ, especially with high definition sources. Converting to digital and then back to analog is done at what sampling rate and word depth? For if it's the red book spec of 44.1/16, then the superiority of the HD audio formats will be annulled and the sound won't be better than red book CD even with stellar conversion, which I doubt.
It will be better than the compressed Dolby, true, but still not all that it could be had the 990's analog path staid pure and the bass management been left to the Oppo, to be done in the digital domain.
As always, "I reserve the right to be wrong" laugh
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Alex

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#82164 - 01/23/10 10:11 PM Re: OPPO Upscaling DVD players [Re: Alexandru Mihaita]
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I still suspect that you would be well served to give it a try at some point. It is a balancing act: more "cluttered" signal path with lossless audio vs a digital path with the lossy core track. As for the 990's ADC, I know it is better than 44.1/16bit. I think it is 96k/24bit. It is on the 990's web page (which I would check if I weren't on an iPhone right now).
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gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#82170 - 01/24/10 08:14 AM Re: OPPO Upscaling DVD players [Re: gonk]
Alexandru Mihaita Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Springfield, PA
We are in agreement that even through the A/D/A the end result will be better than the compressed Dolby. I didn't doubt this one.

Yes, the web page states 192/24, thus A/D/A path has, at least in theory, the potential of being transparent.

I initially started my HT system around the 1070. I am an audiophile, not a videophile, thus I thought that what I have will be enough for movies. The speakers were selected based on the same "lesser requirements". Now I'm not so sure that my thinking was all that good, but "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
When I moved from the 1070 to the 990/7100 I started seeing why some people have their 990 at the center of their entertainment center. It's a very good all-round performer and I even thought that Outlaw almost hurt themselves by setting such a high standard for their future processors in the price range their operate.
Thus, yes, I'll give the analog path a try when connected to the BDP-83. A set of 6 BJ interconnects will be only $100, not too bad when compared with the $65 Apogee digital interconnect I now have in place with very good results.
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Alex

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