Well actually I think I wasn't clear enough. You can judge subs if you have the right specs. We don't, so it's best to not judge by them. As you have pointed out as well, it can be very misleading. Based off the info given I wouldn't give the edge to either one, nor would I call it a tie. Just undecided. There is nothing to tell us about distortion or transient response. There is partial info on loudness (via power), but we'd be kidding ourselves if we thought the more powerful one would always be louder. There are other ways to get more volume.

I said the following in another post as well. I know of the right specs to use, but I don't know where to get them and I'm only so-so at reading them anyway.

i know enough about other velodynes to post on their specs, but specs really mean nothing unless you know what they mean. so it seems that if you do know what they tend to mean you can make an informed observation on the qualities. yes it is just speculation, but educated is better than nothing.

You do seem educated some. No offense, but most everything in that comparison on the last page doesn't mean a thing towards how it will sound in the categories I mentioned. You must know what you don't know. Sometimes the best conclusion is to realize that no conclusion can be made.

to know your limitations is vital, and no one knows it all. when all you have to go on is specs, then what do you propose jt? the only reason the velodyne tied is because i know how they sound, thats not specs or speculation. specs dont ever say it all or how something will sound, however they can narrow down the choices. i.e. you want component video inputs, you want 15 digital audio inputs, you need 12 volt triggers, you want a sub with over 1000watts rms, etc. if some product doesnt meet a SPEC (spec includes features) you are looking for, then its important to look at. if some amp has 95% thd, then its safe to say its unsuited for audio... people come to these sites for links to info, and to get info from people who have used/know what they are talking about. what kind of sub do you have jt? what have you had?

Uh, get off your tail and go listen to it? If that's not possible then check out reviews. Find reviews where they use the same conditions for each sub/speaker so that the comparisons are more valid. Should do both, really. If you don't have the information you need, then don't make a decision. It's that simple.



You can not make educated guesses if you don't have the right info. People who think they can are just kidding themselves. We're talking about subs, so I don't think component inputs is a very important feature here. Features are very nice, but sometimes people forget that they're buying the product for the sound. You can look at features all you want, but they won't tell you how it sounds.

I'm just using the subs built into my main speakers for now, Mirage OH-5's. I've also used the Klipsch 5.1 computer setup. That's all for HT. I have demoes some others, but I'm doing fine with what I have right now. As for cars, I've used Infinity Kappa Perfects and a JBL WGTi.

[This message has been edited by JT Clark (edited May 26, 2004).]

OK I get the point. That's enough with arguing.

Just got back from the house and I had the wiring guys run wire for a possible rear sub but they ran 16 guage wire. Is that appropriate? If not, what should I have them run?

Thanks again.

so jt, are there any reviews like you speak of? i cant go listen to it either.

middle part is suming up what i said.

the last paragraph is where your post got good. "I'm just using the subs built into my main speakers for now." im still laughing for you to be posting like you have any idea what is going on with subwoofers and then spit out a comment like that. thats like a kid playing teeball, talking about playing in the majors and saying he could hit like Barry Bonds, he might get there someday, but hes nowhere close right now.



[This message has been edited by curegeorg (edited May 26, 2004).]

jt, my educated approach to telling if a sub is good or not, is better than any approach you may have because I HAVE owned/demoed in my home so many different subs to know the differences between good and bad ones, and to know that i am not fine with subs built into my mains as my only sub. so not only do i understand the specs, i can translate them, user input, and personal experience to come up with a conclusion. you on the other hand are just sitting on the sidelines nitpicking, with no reference of what makes a quality subwoofer, rehashing what has been said already. come up with something helpful/useful/original to let people decide what is a good product for them; saying go listen to it or read professional (electronically tested at least) reviews is great for products that you can do that with, however it is not always an option. you have offered no method to draw a conclusion on something when the above cannot be met, you are merely criticizing when others do it. it is a common theme in your posting, and frankly it is unnecessary to restate the obvious. i dont think the world needs another John Madden voice.

Wiring for a possible future rear subwoofer:

If the future subwoofer is going to have a built-in amplifier, then you will need a good quality shielded cable run to the rear. If you don’t know whether that sub will have a balanced or unbalanced connection, I would have a cable run for balanced (two insulated conductors within a shield) signals. If you later run unbalanced, the balanced cable can easily be wired as unbalanced.

If the amp for the subwoofer is going to be separate and only the driver/enclosure will be at the rear, then the larger the gauge, the better. Woofers with large excursions do much better with good damping, wire of too small a gauge will do away with much of the damping factor. If the cable is being run over a distance of fifty feet or so, that means the signal will travel through about 100 feet of wire for a round trip. In such a situation my choice would be about 12 gauge copper wire. If the run is 75 feet or more, I would look to install 10 gauge. Others have installed lighter gauge wiring with no problem, but I don’t know what impedance the sub’s drivers will be. My personal preference: for lower impedance drivers and longer the cable runs, the lower the resistance of the cable should be.

See these charts for reference:

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/wire_resistance.html

Note that they don’t agree on the exact numbers, but they do agree in principle.