It is an interesting site, but - as curegeorg points out - SPL alone does not a good sub make.

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Linear SPL + fast transitions + low extension does a good subwoofer make.

I forget where sunfire's were mentioned, maybe it was here, maybe it wasn't, but if their bigger subs are anything like the Jr then the RMS power should be around 270 watts. They've had on their site before that the Jr was about 125 RMS and 1250 max. Peak of 10 times the RMS which is incredible. A store guessed about 400-500 RMS for them.

I hear excellent things about velodynes. I wish I could hear one of the higher end ones for myself.

Nothing beats free info from someone trying to prove a point

Impressive sub. For 5K it had better be. Back to reality.... subs under 1K. Does velodyne offer this technology in this very important price class? Not likely. I would put the models I suggested earlier up against any comparably priced(even double the price)velo out there. Maybe as "trickle-down" reaches this category we can have apples to apples comparisons between these brands. For now, I haven't seen or heard anything to convince me otherwise.

Guys I appreciate all the info. It will take me a couple of days to digest. The most expensive sub that Tweeter carries is the DLS400B.

http://www.tweeter.com/product/index.jsp...rentPage=family

How would this compare to the Outlaw sub?

I know there is a million combos to chose from which I guess is a good thing.

I'm wiring for a second sub in the back of the room in case just one sub doesn't due the trick but this will not be a huge home theater so I won't need a huge sub hopefully.

for somewhere around 1k you can get some Velodyne SPLs, their website while better than it used to be is still lacking msrp. you can use their which product function, which is where i am getting these prices...

SPLs are 1000rms 2000peak.

peak of 10 times is nice, but that just reaches (with a lot more distortion im sure) where my subs start. 1250rms, peak over 3000wts.


[This message has been edited by curegeorg (edited May 22, 2004).]

read my post up above, i compared these two based on their specs. however now i see that the outlaw has 1300wts peak, so that may just tilt me a little towards them. however specs can be misleading, and i havent heard either, and i know that velodyne makes great products all the way down their line. outlaw is well respected, and hsu is too, so im sure they are ok as well. for me, i know velodyne has spend many, many years developing subwoofers and that is why they sit atop the class.

Peak doesn't mean much of anything unless we know how it was derived. Well, really if all are derived from the same method of testing. Is there a standard for that in home theater? There isn't in cars, so everyone with any intelligence just ignores it. What about for RMS? My understanding is that it's sustained power for 8 hours or more. Is it the same for HT?

I had actually been hearing from some guys who know more that the Sunfire is priced kind of high for what it can do. Like georg said, probably has more distortion at the higher levels. It's been quite some time since I heard one. I've learned a lot more since then too.

Sorry I couldn't just let this one go, but I don't see anything here that would actually tell me which one will sound better. More explanation?

perhaps saying who had the advantage wasnt clear enough... between those two models i concluded they were comparable at first, taking into account bigger amp in lfm1 (higher peak too), the edge would go to it on specs, but specs arent everything and i havent heard either. then i said the spl is best inexpensive sub. that is what i said isnt it? should i repeat my post further, or is this one saying the same thing more clearly for you now?