"both companies are left in the lurch by the actual manufacturer of their products (in China)."

It's the s/w development, not the mfg, that's been the holdup.

Not sending $ to China will not help it emerge from poopholiness.

A few observations:

I doubt that a Chinese factory is delaying the 997, since it's design is happening in Korea. The company the owns the Sherwood brand (Inkel, formerly Etronics) is based in Korea, although they appear to have added some Chinese manufacturing resources in the last couple years.

Peter Tribeman does not have any role at ATI. He is president of Atlantic Technology, but that is a different company. Outlaw has used ATI (and their California factory) for their multichannel amps for at least a decade now, and several other companies use ATI for amps. (Lexicon even has an amp that shares a number of design characteristics with the 7900.)

I suspect that some of the "Outlaw vs. Emotiva" stuff comes from Mark Schifter's early marketing, which focused on Emotiva (and particularly their problematic LMC-1) as an "Outlaw-killer". The two companies are almost alone as internet-direct home theater electronics makers, which is going to inevitably lead to comparisons and debate, similar to the early HSU Research vs. SVS debates.

As for the discussions about buying products made in China, we each make our own decisions. As I've said in other threads, Outlaw builds in a number of factories located in several countries. Their multichannel amps and speakers are built in the US (which is one reason they cost more than Emotiva's Chinese-built amps and speakers), the monoblocks are built in Malaysia, and the subs and 990 are built in China.

Oh, no that wasn't my contention. My contention is that using Chinese manufacturing for niche gear tends to lead to poorer quality. And there's also the fact that you're funding a repressive government. So given the choice, I try to avoid products that are manufactured there.

After spending a few years there, you'll notice the overarching mantra for Chinese manufacturing...products need only to look good enough to be purchased and to last one second longer than whatever warranty your foreign business parter is forcing you to give. This superficial "quality" is pervasive in China and Chinese workers bring that mindset to work with them as they assemble your parts.

Best,

I have to agree on China. Whenever humanly possible I avoid buying anything Chinese, simply because they always fail or poison the people using it. A large part of why I bought my Outlaw Amp was because it was made in the US. I had, mistakenly it seems, assumed the 997 was also made in the US. I would have paid an extra $500+ if it had been made in the US. As it is I'll have to take a much harder look other products. You always have to wonder if a Chinese electronic component will cut a corner and burn your house down.

If you really think about it, the manufacturing prowess of the US has waned over the years and many US compamies (from autos to refrigerators to computers to airplanes) are outsourcing their manufacturing to "off shore" facilities to cut costs and maintan a positive profit margin. When it comes to electronics, no one seems to be complaining about all the electronic components that go onto the PCB's of all those electronic "gadgets" that US consumers hanker for are sourced from the Far East. I'd love to own a completely US built electronic component. The only problem is that it simply isn't available most of us "regular Joes".
I'm not defending China of any other country. You can get crapily built stuff anywhere on the globe (the US included). A buying decision boils down to your acessment of of how well a piece of electronic equipment is engineered and assembled. Also, does the company offer a good warranty and good customer service. If those things are done well, you are more likely to have a product that will have some longevity. Given the rapid pace of technilogical change in the consumer electronics market, you'll probably buy a peice of equipment that still work well but will be less than cutting edge in 3 to 5 years.

No argument that manufacturing in China is something that requires caution and oversight to maintain quality. That's true anywhere, of course, but moreso for China. And I understand reluctance to buy Chinese-made products. I just doubt that there's an actual delay in product development for the Model 997 because of it - there's no evidence I've seen that would suggest this.
Since Outlaw doesn\'t own their own factory the products are made at an assortment of different locations. There are probably not many factories around the US that would be available to build surround processors, and even fewer with the in-house engineering resources to partner with Outlaw on developing a platform. Anthem builds theirs in Canada, although I don't know where all the sub-assemblies (circuit boards, etc.) come from and it's a lot more than a $500 adder to get an HDMI-equipped processor from Anthem.
I agree with this assessment. On the one hand, I will never try to dissuade someone from scratching a product off their shopping list because it was built in China - there are compelling arguments to support that choice, and I'm not fool enough to try to contradict them if someone has made this choice. On the other hand, we've lost a lot of our domestic manufacturing might, and China has risen to prominence whether we like it or not. Heck, go walk through a toy store and look for what's not made in China. Kinda scary. I'd love to see a North American-built processor that does what I want, with the performance I want, well supported by its manufacturer, at a price I can afford. So far, I can't find one that does all of those. In the meanwhile, I will stick with the same formula I've used for years when considering major purchases: research, weigh the plusses and minuses, and get the one that I feel best fits my needs. Manufacturing origin does play a role for me, but I've not yet established a personal "off limits" policy for any specific nation. That's just me, though.

Gonk,

Good points as usual. I'm one of those who won't buy something made in China unless I absolutely have to. I understand Outlaw is limited by their outsourcing of manufacturing, and it's not their 'fault' that the 997 will be made in China, as that's where SN is building the platforms. I too would pay more for a US (or even North/South American) built product versus one made in China, but as you point out, there really isn't anything available in this price range. I buy Outlaw amps over Emotiva (even though they are more money) as I'd rather support a US company. I also happen to feel Outlaw's amps are better built and Outlaw's customer support is better (IMO). In the past, I've unknowingly purchased some gear that was made in China, but I've made a decision that anything I purchase in the future won't be made there. The first thing I look for now on anything I buy is where it's made (and it's damn hard to find anything that's not made in China). I guess down the road I will have to decide whether the 997 is a product that's worth compromising my principles for or not. Unfortunately, at this point I'd have to say I won't be getting one.

I paid $1550US for my Onkyo PR-SC886, delivered to my door, all in.

Since Outlaw insists on shipping its products to Canada via UPS ground, and since UPS then subjects us to outlandish brokerage fees in the process, my guess is that even if I were to discount the expected list price of the 997 to take into account the $100 credit as a former 950 buyer, the all-in price for a 997 would be essentially the same as what I paid for the 886.

Except for a couple of features, and Trinnov vs. Audyssey in particular, these two units are identical for all intents and purposes. The 886 is a great pre/pro. The 997 will be as well.

So I was able to buy a made-in-Malaysia unit, keep my conscience intact, get essentially the same product, and not pay a penny more.

I'm glad to hear that there are others out there who avoid made-in-China products as much as possible. It's only if we continue to do so, and spread the word, that real changes can happen. If more and more people do, and post about it, some manufacturers will take note and change their practices. Once a few do, the flow in that direction will get stronger. And before you know it we will be able to buy all of our products from somewhere other than China.

The world will be a much better place when we can do so.

Some good points are being made. I should qualify my statement above as not meaning that I have something against Asian products as opposed to simply Chinese. I'd put most Japanese manufactured products on par with US made, Toyota and Honda for example well above any other. Just like in the western hemisphere there's a scale of where I'd like buy products from, US, Canada, Mexico, random central / south American country and at the bottom of the scale Cuba. In Asia my scale would be Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Taiwan, China.

I'll probably still end up buying the 997 based on my experience with the company and high expectationson of them backing up the product when problems do come up.

You can find good stuff made in China, and crap. One example is a wonderfull little wood turning lathe sold by Grizzly Machinery. This is a very well made tool that has gotten excellent reviews. Harbor Freight sells a similar tool (it's so similar, it might as well be clone). It seems both tools are made at the same factory, under the same assembly line. The Grizzly version is subject to extreme inspection and the units that fail this end up being sold by Harbor Freight!