My system is a single zone with only one display and sporting a 5.1 system. No future plans to change this setup, so things like multiple HDMI outputs and zone two controls don’t do anything for me. I am 85% movies and 15% music. I use a PS3 for BD (will most likely upgrade to the new Oppo BD player), a DirecTV DVR, a couple of amps, a 70” SXRD2 display and you have my front end. After I rebuild my sub, my speaker setup will be complete. The last link in the system is a new (or used high end) Pre/pro. Both of these processors are on my short list for that spot. The most important feature of this new unit will have to be sound quality for both movies and music. Music may make up only a small percentage of my usage but I feel the SQ is more critical with music than with movies. It looks like these two processors will be going head to head in the market. With the 997 priced around $1400 and the XMC at $1000+ (price not set yet, just an estimate). Both units offered by internet companies and offering great value and outstanding customer service. It sounds like the 997 will hit the market months before the XMC, so that will be an advantage to Outlaw. From what I can gather from the published spec’s on these two units, the XMC may have a higher quality video section while the 997 may be a better audio unit. This conclusion is based on the emphasis each company has put on these sections by their choice processors and software. Emo’s choice to add Genesis Torino video processing and their own Emo-Q room correction verse Outlaw’s Silicon Optix Reon video processing and the Trinnov Optimizer for room correction. The Twin Cirrus 32 bit dual core DSP chips Emo will be using will have more processing power as it was explained, these chips can handle a 192k signal and process it at that rate. It was said that the TI chip(s) are limited to 96k and will truncate a 192k signal back down to 96k for processing. If this is true, the Cirrus chip solution seems the better choice. Emo will be using Analog Devices 24/192 DACs and Outlaw only references that the chips will be 24/192 DACs so it is hard to draw a comparison at this time. The only other thing that I can see that would make a big difference to me is that the Outlaw’s USB is Bi directional. I am assuming this will at minimum allow for a MP3 hookup or preferably can be used to control an external hard drive to act as a music sever. Emo has this listed for use as software upgrades only.
I know real comparisons are not possible until these units are actually in people’s hands but while waiting I continue to shop and I have to compare these two against used units so I can make the right buying decision. Any constructive comments are welcome as I am not married to either of these brands and only want the best Pre/pro for my money. This post is only my opinion, needs and wants will be different for everyone and things may change as these units get closer to production.

Will the 997 be built in China?

As you note, it's too soon to compare the Outlaw to the Emotiva unit. The Torino chip is something of an unknown quantity, whereas the Reon is something folks have a lot more experience with. Genesis has been behind the curve on video processing for a number of years now (they relied on the Faroudja for too long). I think that the Emo-Q is related to Cirrus's SNAP (or whatever they call it) room correction, which doesn't have the prominence of Audyssey or the commercial / studio heritage of Trinnov. Unfortunately, though, I've not paid a lot of attention to Emotiva since I withdrew from the LCM-1 debacle a year or more ago. That combined with the limited details available on both units leaves me feeling like it's just too soon to say anything definitive about any comparisons.

I don't know where the 997 will be built. I think that Etronics may have some manufacturing facilities in China, but they are a Korean company with Korean manufacturing facilities.

If you are going to the OPPO BDP-83 then the video processing part would be done there and since the Outlaw audio is likely superior you would seem to have the best of everything with the 997 and the 7.1 input from the OPPO. Since neither is on the street it is hard to say which is best in any regard. It is likely that the argument will go on for sometime yet (years). Choose the one that has the best warranty/service/reputation/features and be prepared to argue at a later time. For your use have you considered a new 990. It is a bargain at $699 and has the 7.1 input for the OPPO.

If you don't have the need for the hdmi video processing and connections, the 990 is a great deal right now. I needed the video capabilities in my main system and went with the integra dhc9.9. It works great.

My living room system is one where the video part was not important to me though, and I just ordered a 990 for that system. At $699.00 there is nothing else out there that compares for mainly audio use.

I'm betting yes. The Sherwood receiver version , the R972, says "Made in China" on tha back in this photo:

R972 back panel

Made in China???

Oooops!

Peter T: please say it ain't so.

I just got my new 990 from Fged ex this morning. It says made in China on it as well. The Integra dhc 9.9 that I got last Monday was made in Malaysia.

They each replaced Harman Kardon Signature 2.0's that were manufactured in the USA. There are quite a few high end audio/video companies that manufacure in China now. Fewer and fewer audio components, even from Japanese companies, are manufactured in Japan any longer.

Scott

My OPPO players are all made in China, and over the last four years I've had five different players that have all been very reliable. It's not something that inherently carries a sense of "oh, yeah!" but it also doesn't necessarily signal bad things. The key is making sure the specific facility is well-run. AV123 had a series of really dreadful problems last year with Chinese-made electronics that were due at least in part to a lack of factory supervision.

I worked for many years with a first tier automotive supplier, and I can tell you without reservation that if these products weren't made in china or that general vicinity, most of us wouldn't be able to afford them.
We are living in an international economy. Any manufacturer who wishes to give his customer a competitive price is going to be forced to select the supply chain that provides the greatest value.

Koyaan is quite correct to say that unless price is definately no object, manufacturers need a global supply chain. Note, however, that Outlaw is rather unique in their price category to offer a wide range of amplifiers that are "Made in the USA". These days, things such as AV receivers and surround processors at affordable pricing almost have to come from an off-shore factory.

Actually, I was going to give the 997 a higher rating for being made in the USA.

As Koyaan has stated, more and more manufactures are moving offshore. A great short term business model, until no one in the US has a job. Then these companies will have no customers. It's not a competitive price, it's a low price while still maintaining a double digit profit margin. I know, I spent six months in China setting up a plant for a company I used to work for.

There isn't that much labor in these units, all of the boards are made on automated machines. Labor cost is the big cost saver which includes benefits and taxes. But when you figure in VAT tax and shipping costs it doesn't make sense unless you’re making a million widgets or the process is very labor intensive.

Sorry for the rant, but I've seen firsthand how this works. If companies would automate their factories here there wouldn't be a big need to build in China.

Brax,
IMO you're right on. This has been something I've been thinking about recently in light of the economic meltdown. I will remain an Outlaw customer because of their amps. They are more money than a comparable product from Emotiva, but Outlaw amps are made in the US. I would rather have my money go to a company that provides US jobs. Your point about no one having jobs is well taken...as I peruse many of the audio forums I frequent, I'm starting to think 'where are some of these people getting their money'? When so many people have either lost their jobs or are in danger of losing them, I still see people mulling over whether to spend $5k on this component or that...at this point I'm not considering another purchase because of what the economy could bring in the next year. That might change, but the way I feel right now about things makes me very uneasy. Some people will always have money to spend no matter what happens, but if a company like Outlaw (or Emotiva or AV123) are built around selling products to middle class Americans, that could be in deep jeopardy if things continue the downward spiral. I guess my point in all this is kind of the same as yours...who will be buying any mid level to high end gear when the jobs go away? Sorry for my rant too.

Wouldn't it take automation and low wages to match the Asian market?

Part of the challenge for a company like Outlaw comes from their size and structure. Outlaw doesn't own any manufacturing facilities. They partner with other companies that do own manufacturing facilities. I think that Anthem builds their processors in Canada (which is one reason the Statement D2 lists for just shy of $7,000), but I doubt they are eager to hire out their facilities. I don't know where Lexicon builds the MC-12 (which, last I checked, runs about twice the cost of a D2 if you get room correction and HDMI). There's not really anybody else I can think of who might have domestic manufacturing facilities that are set up to build a surround processor or receiver. With Outlaw's manufacturing motto , that makes it hard for Outlaw to build processors state-side.

I'd like to see Outlaw build more domestically, but to be honest I'm impressed that they build as much as they do. Their partnership with ATI (who builds amps in California for a number of companies) has produced a long-running series of very good multichannel amps that have all been built here in the US. Their speakers are built domestically, as well, although the subs are built overseas. When you add up the products they currently sell that have the "Outlaw" name on the front, eight are built in the US (six amps and two speakers) and eight are built overseas (two processors, one amp, three subs, and an assortment of cables).

I'm not calling out Outlaw, just a general statment.

My concern has nothing to do with the economics of manufacturing offshore - and everything to do with not supporting China in any way, shape or form.

Unlike most of the Mall Wart mentality, I'm even willing to pay more, even significantly more, to buy from somewhere other than China.

Malaysia sounds good to me (at least in comparison to China.) So an Onkyo PRSC886P at $1600 versus an Outlaw 997 at $1399 (less the $100 discount for Model 950 owners)? That would be $300 very well spent in my books.

No, the factories (most any) are not automated. They pay such a low wage, labor is cheaper than investing in automation. Not only that, but what are you going to do with a Billion people.

I work in manufacturing now, I just put into place an automation cell that will pay for itself in 1.1 years. We did go from 3 operators to one but at least that one was in the US not China.