Hello all,

First, I'd like to say that I am really impressed with Outlaw Audio. I haven't heard a single piece of their equipment but the community and following they have generated is a testament to their commitment to building cost-conscious-cost-no-object audio equipment.

I've had a Paradigm Reference Active system for about 10 years now. (Active 40's for main, 20's for rears, the matching Active CC and a Servo-15). I love my speakers. I hate my electronics.

I'm running a Denon AVM-2801 as a pre-amp. It's out of date and quite frankly, I find it really lacks musicality. I've been through a barrage of other preamps; Adcom, NAD & Parasound. I just found none of them had that extra "something".

Then I found a preamp that did - I had the opportunity of using a Krell Evolution 202 for a while. It's an outstanding unit (and at the price, it should very well be). It was a loaner, and it's out of my budget (WAY out) but it proved to me that what I'm looking for IS out there.

Obviously (well, hopefully for Krell's sake) the 997 won't be as tall of an order, but... Well, how good is this unit going to be?

The 990 has such a golden reputation - sonically.

Ultimately, I know it's going to be up to my ears to decide, but after reading about what people have said 990 and what people expect out of the 997 I haven't been this excited about pre-amp... Well, ever.

So, 990 and potential 997 owners, how do these units perform musically? I do need a HT unit because I will use it for that, but 2 channel is my main concern.

Has anyone used the 990 with Paradigm Actives?

Thanks for your thoughts!

-Paul

It's hard to predict what the 997 will be like, but I guess we can still take a guess or two. Certainly the 990 was a great partner for my Paradigm Studios (not active, but I had Studio 60v2 towers and Studio CCv2 center up until last spring), and the 997 is likely to have some sonic similarities to the 990 considering its platform origin.

Since in over 30 years I have never been able to hear a difference between any (functioning as designed) preamp passing through a straight stereo signal from source to amp, I'm really interested in knowing all about this "musicality" of the 990 that's apparently got everyone so excited - given that I'm planning to buy a 997.

Are you folks saying that my 950 in stereo mode (bypass or otherwise) is going to sound like dog meat in comparison? And if so just how would you actually characterize / quantify the difference?

Jeff Mackwood

I have been looking at stereo pre-amps with HT bypass for my two channel. Two channel just doesn't seem to be a priority even on the best HT preamps.
These two passive preamps are on the top of my list. I have the Channel Islands DAC and what it does for two channel is just amazing.

Channel Islands PLC-1
http://www.ciaudio.com/
Goldpoint SA-2
http://www.goldpt.com/

Jeff Mackwood,

Really? You've never been able to hear a different between preamps? I agree that the difference can be subtle - especially when compared to the difference speakers or amps can make.

A preamp has to take that tiny little weak signal that your source outputted and just every so slightly magnify it. Inevitably, during such an exacting delicate process, something it going to be added or taken away. That's the characteristic of the preamp - for better or for worse.

As for 'musicality'... I don't think it's something you can really quantify. Musicality is what makes the magic happen. That "je ne sai quoi" that get's you feat moving. It's one of those things you just have to hear, and when you do, you'll know it.

To me, the biggest contrast from musical to not (in the preamp world) is between a Conrad Johnson Act-2 and Bryston SP2. Both top shelf pre-amps. The CJ is extremely musical - it has a lot of life in it. The Bryston is a great unit - very exact. It's perfect for HT, but compared to the CJ for music... It just doesn't have that "x-factor" for me. If you can get a chance to hear an A/B with those two (or something similar) you'll hear it.

A few months ago I had the chance to hear the new Revel Salons. I adore the previous version of the speakers, so I was really excited to hear the new ones. They are second to none (the new ones) for HT, but for music, personally, I find them a very hard listen. I was really disappointed. They are over-engineered and lack musicality (I feel). Compare those to anything by Sonus Faber.

My last effort, audition a Nakamichi receiver, and put it next to a Denon or a Harmon Kardon. It's not as night and day as the other examples, but it's definitely there. Two great companies, two great items and one is better for HT while the other shines at music.

I don't know the 950, but I've read great things. If it sounds like dog meat, there's something wrong!

Dvenardos, interesting solution. It seems we share the same problem. Do you have a 990 or 950?

Thanks everyone!

Actually, considering most source components output 2 volts at digital full scale, and most power amplifiers will be driven to full power with that or less, today's "preamps" are really attenuating the signal, not amplifying it.

This was not the case in older, stereo preamps which had to amplify the signal from a phono cartidge which typically had about 3 millivolts output.

I have the 970 which is a non-starter for two-channel (great for HT), although many seem to like it. I use it in analog bypass which is not as bad. I recently purchased a Virtue Two integrated amp which has an internal passive pre-amp and my CI VDA-2 Dac does sound better when going direct to the Virtue Two versus using the Two as a poweramp and the 970 as a preamp.

I am SO glad I am not cursed with the ability to hear the subtle things that neither a normal human being nor any piece of test gear cannot!

Then again I guess if you can describe the indescribable by way of another language, then you really must be able to hear differences dans la musique que quelqu'un comme moi n'a jamais la chance d'entendre.

So you are saying you have done a/b tests of high quality equipment and can't hear any difference between that and mid-fi equipment?
Some people say all amps sound the same too, but most of those people have never done an a/b comparison.

Hey, it a hobby and whatever floats your boat...

I've never done any scientifically controlled double blind listening tests set-up to compare pre-amps. (Not the same as A/B tests - of which yes, I have sat in variety of listening rooms and compared pre-amps and amps over a period of thirty years or so.)

I have sat in on double blind speaker listening tests on a number of occasions with Floyd Toole and his team while they were at Canada's National Research Council of Canada and helping to establish Canada's loudspeaker industry. But maybe that doesn't count. (And I'm just dropping names. Hey one man's Floyd Toole is another's Krell Evolution. )

To repeat (and expand), I have never heard any difference in "musicality" between two solid state pre-amps (mostly because I still have no idea what that actually means)playing in unprocessed stereo mode - assuming that both are functioning as designed (and have inaudible noise and distortion and flat frequency response - which should be a given for anything in just about any price range.) Perhaps they do sound different to some - but as I said I'd hate to be cursed with that affliction. I mean if the difference in apparent sound from two pre-amps was enough to concern me, just imagine how I'd react to differences in two speakers' sound or, heaven forbid, room acoustics!

As I have also stated in past posts on this forum and others, I certainly have heard very significant differences in how multi-channel processed sound sounds - where there are many more variables that come into play.

But unless the new 997 has some serious shortcoming in stereo mode in terms noise, distortion, or non-flat frequency response, it's a complete non-issue in my purchasing decision.

I certainly appreciate your opinion.